Tuesday, December 2, 2008

[Druid] The bear T7 list - pre and post 3.0.4, part 2.

The link to the first part of this guide - leather, leather, leather.

Welcome back to the second part of the bear gear guide for T7.

Unlike the leather gear, the non-leather gear has weights that are very different between classes. I tried to keep the agility/stamina/armor/dodge ratios the same from leather, but it didn't always work well that way (specifically for trinkets and weapons). In general, it's consistent with the other system. Note that the numbers in parenthesis are the values as if the armor change in 3.0.4 has not happened, so that you can choose good gear now and good gear for later. And unlike leather ,this significantly changes the ordering of gear, though oddly not at the top spots.

This is the list that I suspect will get the most feedback on, as a lot of it is more subjective and not perfect, mathematically.

Tomorrow I'll post a priority list of gear and what you should do to get it based on this. That's the sort of thing I do for myself when trying to gear up via dkp; hopefully it'll help you as well.

Weapon (weight used post-3.0.4; weight used pre-3.0.4)
  1. Origin of Nightmares - 72.25 (120.65). Heroic Grobbulus.
  2. Staff of the Plague Beast - 64.52 (107.20). Normal Heigan.
  3. The Undeath Carrier - 62.16 (63.42). Heroic Heigan.
  4. Enraged Feral Staff - 58.41 (105.56). Heroic Utgarde Keep
  5. Staff of the Plaguehound - 56.82 (58.45). Normal Kel'Thuzad.
  6. Staff of Trickery - 55.04 (56.15). Heroic Violet Hold
  7. Inevitable Defeat - 54.51 (0).Heroic Naxxramas trash
  8. Journey's End - 50.58 (53.36). Heroic Kel'Thuzad.
  9. Witch Doctor's Wildstaff - 48.76 (48.89). Normal Gundrak.
  10. Lightning Giant Staff - 41.04 (42.47). Heroic Halls of Lightning.
  11. Stave of Shrouded Mysteries - 40.24 (62.85). Revered with Kirin Tor.
  12. Wildfury Greatstaff - 34.01 (67.81). Serpentshrine Cavern
  13. Pillar of Ferocity - 27.29 (65.09). Mount Hyjal
  14. Bloodwood Greatstaff (63.76)- 14.97 BoE
- Note: this assumes that ghostcrawler misspoke the first time when saying that armor would be removed from staves and that armor would exist on them, we just wouldn't get a bonus from them. This also includes the FAP changes. The staves with armor still win out, but the undeath carrier comes a lot closer to Staff of the Plague Beast.

Idol

  1. Idol of Terror - Badges
  2. Idol of the Plainstalker - Quest in Borean Tundra
  3. Idol of Perspicacious Attacks - Grizzly Hills vendor
  4. Idol of the Wastes - Quest in dragonblight
- There exists no epic tanking idol in Wrath. None. It sucks hard. Idol of Terror and Plainstalker at least provides some mitigation. Everything else is pure threat.

Really poor choice, Bliz.

Ring (weight used post 3.0.4; weight used pre-3.0.4)
  1. Keystone Great-Ring - 32.78 (65.31). Heroic Drak'tharon keep
  2. Gatekeeper - 32.26 (60.20). Heroic Sapphiron.
  3. Titanium Earthguard Ring - 29.81 (27.81). Jewelcrafting BoE.
  4. Signet of the Impenetrable Fortress - 28.77 (26.83). 25 emblems of valor.
  5. Deflection Band - 28.16 (26.16). Normal Anub'Rekhan.
  6. Hemmoraging Circle - 27.91 (26.04). Heroic Gundrak
  7. Strong-Handed Ring - 27.43 (25.59). Heroic Anub'Rekhan, Patchwerk, Noth, Faerlina, Razuvious
  8. Sand-Worn Band - 27.25 (25.42). Heroic Patchwerk, Anub'Rekhan, Razuvious, Faerlina, Noth
  9. Signet of Edward the Odd - 26.43 (24.65). World drop BoE
  10. Titanium Impact Band - 25.82 (24.09). Jewelcrafting BoE
  11. Band of Torture - 24.41 (50.05). Heroic Oculus
  12. Greatring of Collision - 24.32 (22.69). Normal Sartharion + 2 adds.
  13. Nerubian Shield Ring - 23.50 (52.97). Heroic Ahn'katet.
  14. Mobius Band - 22.91 (21.37). Heroic CoT Stratholme
  15. Ring of Earthen Might - 22.59 (44.60). Jewelcrafting BoE
  16. Signet of the Accord - 22.37 (20.87). Normal Sartharion.
  17. Surge Needle Ring - 21.47 (20.03). Normal Malygos
  18. Ring of the Stalwart Protector - 20.78 (45.73). badges
  19. Band of the Kirin Tor - 20.75 (19.36). 8000g in Dalaran
  20. Sealing Ring of Grobbulus - 20.09 (18.74). Normal Grobbulus.
  21. Ring of Invincibility - 19.97 (18.63). 25 emblems of valor.
  22. Iceforged battle-ring - 18.23 (48.99). quest in storm peaks
  23. Violet Signet of the Great Protector - 16.67 (40.76). Karazhan
-Keystone Great Ring remains the best druid tanking ring, and Gatekeeper remains #2. Titanium Earthguard ring is a very good avoidance ring, and Signet of the Impregnable fortress should be a very good threat ring. And the nice thing is that they're all fairly close. Still - expect to either run Drak'Tharon keep a lot or buy a ring or two.

Amulet (weight used post-3.0.4; weight used pre-3.0.4)
  1. Boundless Ambition - 34.39(54.66) - Heroic Kel'Thuzad.
  2. Heritage - 31.80 (29.66 ) - Heroic Faerlina, Patchwerk, Noth, Razuvious, Anub'Rekhan
  3. Favor of the Dragon Queen - 31.09 ( 29.01) . Heroic Malygos (from quest turnin)
  4. Amulet of Autopsy - 30.69 (52.15) - Normal Heigan, Gluth.
  5. Nexus War Champion Beads - 29.28 (27.31 ) Heroic Malygos (from quest turnin)
  6. Titanium Earthguard Chain - 29.19 (50.75). Jewelcrafting BoE
  7. Chained Military Gorget - 28.23 (26.33 ). 25 emblems of heroism.
  8. Pendant of the Dragonsworn - 28.21 (26.32). Normal Malygos (from quest turnin)
  9. Titanium Impact Choker - 25.82 (24.09). Jewelcrafting BoE
  10. Pendant of the Outcast Hero - 24.55 (22.90). 40 emblems of heroism.
  11. Drakescale Collar - 24.28 (22.65). Normal Malygos (from quest turnin)
  12. Icy Blast Amulet - 24.21 (22.58). Heroic Sapphrion.
  13. Shadowseeker's Pendant - 24.04(22.42). Heroic Ahn'kahet.
  14. Fool's Trial - 23.14 (21.59). Heroic Noth, Patchwerk, Razuvious, Faerlina, Anub'Rekhan
  15. Amulet of Wills - 21.34 (42.49). Normal Halls of Stone
  16. Gem of Imprisoned Vassals - 21.24(19.81). Normal Kel'Thuzad.
  17. Necklace of the Deep - 20.84 (19.44). Jewelcrafting BoE.
  18. Necklace of the Chrono-Lord - 20.72 (19.33). Normal CoT Strat.
  19. Medallion of the Disgraced - 20.19 (18.83). Normal Naxx trash drop
  20. Collar of Dissolution - 19.67 ( 18.35). Normal Anub'Rekhan.
  21. Torta's Oversized Choker - 18.80 (37.30) . BoE drop
- My, how the mighty have not fallen. Boundless ambition is definitely the best regardless of anything like an armor nerf due to the high stamina, avoidance and some armor thrown in. Note how close Amulet of Autopsy is to Heritage or Favor of the Dragon Queen. If you can't get any of these, I'd recommend saving for the Chained Military Gorget. Don't bother with the Titanium Earthguard Chain any more. It'll be too expensive for too minimal of a gain.

Trinket (weight used post-3.0.4; weight used pre-3.0.4)
  1. Darkmoon Card: Greatness - 27.12 (24.94). Darkmoon Nobles Deck
  2. Defender's Code - 18.63 (85.64). Heroic Heigan, Grobbulus, Maexxna, Gothik.
  3. Valor Medal of the First War - 20.71 (19.04). 40 emblems of heroism
  4. Essence of Gossamer - 21.19 (19.57). Heroic Azjol-Nerub.
  5. Offering of Sacrifice - 12.05 (55.42).Heroic Gundrak
  6. Repelling Charge - 14.96 (13.75). Normal Thaddius
  7. Badge of Tenacity - 6.75 (31.03). BC BoE drop
- There just aren't that many good tanking trinkets for druids, at least not ones that are non-jewelcrafting. JC gets Monarch Crab, which would rank between the code and Gossamer. The Indestructable Alchemist Stone is the second-best trinket in the game when 3.0.4 comes out at 26.71. The values are the weights, but the ranking ignores this as weights cannot reasonably factor in the values you get from on-use. If you have any doubt why the armor nerf in 3.0.4 was done, look at the pre and post scores for defenders code. Darkmoon Card: Greatness is by far the best tanking trinket for druids, giving about 190 agility on average. Defender's Code is still strong for both the pure mitigation and the on-use. As always, you should have a collection of trinkets. For normal use I would go with Greatness and Gossamer, but have those, Valor Medal, Defender's Code and Offering of Sacrifice if you can.

Cloak
(weight used post-3.0.4; weight used pre 3.0.4)
  1. Cloak of the Shadowed Sun - 40.79 (67.35 ). Heroic Grobbulus, Gothik, Heigan and Maexxna
  2. Gale-Proof Cloak - 35.39. (42.17) Normal Sartharion
  3. Platinum Mesh Cloak - 35.31. (42.33) 25 emblems of valor.
  4. Durable Nerubhide Cape - 30.25. (37.33) BoE Leatherworking.
  5. Cloak of the Gushing Wound - 29.63. (36.45) Heroic Violet Hold
  6. Drape of the Deadly Foe - 29.39. (36.94) Heroic Kel'Thuzad.
  7. Cloak of Mastery - 28.74. (35.91) Normal Sartharion.
  8. Cloak of Armed Strife - 27.98 (55.07). Normal Maexxna.
  9. Aged Winter Cloak - 26.86. (34.38). Heroic Gothik, Heigan, Grobbulus and Maexxna.
  10. Cloak of Holy Extermination - 26.86. (33.55) Honored with Argent Crusade
  11. Ice Striker's Cloak - 25.97 (33.31). BoE leatherworking
  12. Shroud of Reverberation - 25.92. (32.96) Heroic Halls of Lightning
  13. Hammerhead Sharkskin Cloak - 24.52 (32.18). 25 emblems of valor.
  14. Flowing Cloak of Command - 24.15. (52.53) Heroic CoT Strat
  15. Slikk's Cloak of Placation - 23.64. (42.70) 35 badges
  16. Cloak of Darkening - 23.34 (30.83) Normal Razuvious
  17. Shadow of the Ghoul - 21.78 (29.60) Heroic Naxx trash drop
  18. Cloak of Tormented Skies - 21.76 (40.40). Leatherworking BoE
- This is a bit tougher to gauge, as no rating system out there rates both armor and additional armor separately. Still, this is what I'd be going for. The best cloak pre-3.0.4 is the best cloak post 3.0.4. The extra armor makes up for the lack of avoidance, and given the slightly greater stamina it goes ahead. Interestingly enough with this change, DPS cloaks show up here. Agility is simply that much better than dodge.

19 comments:

WoodElf said...

Chained Military Gorget - 28.23 (26.33 ). 40 emblems of heroism.

are 25 badges no 40

Ty for the post dude

Haunau said...

I've noticed that the trinket ranking doesn't follow the order of the post-3.0.4 weight. Oversight, or is that just subjective adjustment?

Copey said...

Another question about trinkets. My Darkmoon Card: Vengeance cost me a fair amount of gold, but has been very useful, and one of my favorite trinkets. Seeing that inscribers can make cards now, is that the only source of the Nobles Deck? It just seems like if they aren’t random world drops that they could end up being outrageously expensive.

Druidus said...

Hi, which weights are you giving for your jewelry? Im still trying to figure out how to balance the armor now...

Techwolf said...

Darkmoon Card: Greatness is indeed only crafted by inscription. It requires 2 eternal life + 5-7 stacks of Lichbloom/Adder's Tongue to get the materials to make 1 card. You can craft the same card over and over, so it's pseudo-random as to when you can craft the whole deck. It could be at 9 cards, it could be at 90 cards.

Hoofnmouf said...

Amazingly helpful post as always I look here to figure out how best to gear my bear(and kitty) thank you for taking the time to share this.
So pre 3.0.4 Cloak of Tormented Skies beats Durable Nerubhide Cape? Just about to ding 80 and have mats for Nerubhide guess I should roll with Tormented till the patch(kick in nuts) comes thru?

amf said...

GREATE post!! Ty very much for that. =)))

--
Elfkilla - Gorefiend-US

Anonymous said...

very helpful post ty so much!!!!

oh and awesome analyis of mitigation/threat/stamina stats, and what's important. Totally agree with it, that's been my experience too. Dont be fooled by non tanks who think 50k health is cool - how funny!

Kalon said...

Woodelf - thanks for coming by. And yeah, I got that right on the emblem sheet and wrong here. Sigh. Should be fixed.

Haunau - thanks as well. The trinkets do not follow the ranking simply because I did not have time to weight out what the proc/on use/values are, so I subjectively ranked them according to what I think is best. As I said, you'll want different trinkets for different things anyway.

Copey - yeah, the Nobles deck is going to be really, really expensive. I'm still dreading it. I'm an herbalist, so I think I'll just be feeding herbs to my inscriptionist in the hopes of getting the cards.

Druidus - the weights for each system (pre and post 3.0.4) are linked in the header of each section.

Hoofnmouth - thanks! And yeah, pre 3.0.4 Cloak of Tormented skies edges out durable nerubhide cloak. While the latter has tons of avoidance, you just can't beat 2000 armor. It still should be okay later on, but you'll want to replace it.

Amf, anon, thanks for coming by and the kind words. :)

Mekias said...

As a long time healer, I can say without a doubt that stamina becomes less important for the tank after a certain point. There really should be a sliding scale for stamina based on current health.

Rawr is a great idea but their weights for stamina can be a bit ridiculous. They have the stats available to do a sliding scale so hopefully it will change in the future.

Healing/Tanking comes in two main varieties:

1) Steady damage
2) Spikey damage

On steady damage fights, you need enough health to give the healers about 5 or 6 seconds leeway in case something happens and they can't heal. So if you're taking 5k a second, 30k health should be plenty.

Spikey damage is where health is needed. On fights like this, more healers are assigned to the tanks so you only have to survive about 3 or 4 seconds. The spikeyness usually comes from one particular nasty attack and a few normal attacks. Figure out the most damage you can receive in 4 seconds and you should be good to go.

For figuring this out, you'll only want to consider armor and stamina. Dodge is critical for lessening a healer's burden over the length of a fight but can't be counted on during a few second time frame.

Mekias said...

Forgot to mention the numbers in my above post were referencing a 25-main raid group with 2-4 healers on a tank.

For a 5 or 10-man, you'll only have 1 or 2 healers so you need to be able to survive a bit longer. Of course you'll probably be getting hit for less damage as well.

Deloimoi said...

Good post, but you missed a good trinket. You mentioned the trinket that JCs can craft, but the Indestructable Alchemists Stone is a really good starting trinket.

Kalon said...

Delomoi - thanks for coming by. And you're absolutely right - the Indestructable Alchemist stone is probably the second-best overall trinket relative to DM:G. I'll add it now along with its score. Thanks!

Beable said...

What do you recommend for a yellow gem slot where you want to hit the color correctly?

Trying to figure out how to gem my T7 chest bought from badges. As an ex-warrior it's very hard to not just put stam gems in everything, but I've been reading that that is not the way for bears.

For the red gem I went with an agility, not sure about the yellow. I'd be fine with stam gems and not hitting the bonus if that's a good idear also.

Thanks.

Deloimoi said...

Beable : It’s not that gemming for stam is wrong, it really depends on what your dodge and health is. Gems are useful because you can choose them, if you are low on health get stam, if you are low on dodge get agi, if your fine on both either get agi+stam or whichever you prefer. Personally if my health and dodge are fine I will always go with agi until my dodge reaches 50%, then defense.

Kalon said...

What do you recommend for a yellow gem slot where you want to hit the color correctly?

Hey, Beable - I should really put up an optimal gem list. Yellows are still annoying, but they're a bit less horrible than they were. If you want stam or aren't too picky, go with Enduring gems - defense isn't stellar but it's still not bad. If you don't want that, go with Glinting or Stalwart, though the latter doesn't appear to be in the game yet.

Jeremy Rowland said...

Darkmoon Card: Greatness is slightly overrated on this list, IMO, because it assumes that it'll always proc Agility giving 190 on average. However, as much as we'd like to stack agility on our gear, our highest stat will almost always be Stamina, and the trinket mechanic is that it procs whichever stat is highest. Still good, and probably still the best, but not the uber agility trinket it looks like on the surface.

Jeremy Rowland said...

Correction on my last comment: I just realized that Stam isn't one of the proc'ed stats. Agi should be the proc for properly geared ferals so the original analysis was correct.

Anonymous said...

Flowing Cloak of Command - 24.15. (52.53) Heroic CoT Strat

This cloak drops in normal CoT Strat not heroic as stated