Here's the first installment of the gear list for bears. It's very large, so I decided to break it up into leather and non-leather items. This is all about the leather. I'll provide a link back when I do the non leather later today.
As you might have noticed from recent posts, I've been favoring agility over stamina stacking. Why? Because while stamina does help time to live and does give your healers a buffer for healing you, after a certain point it simply isn't useful. If you never dip below 30% health, that 30% health is basically wasted itemization. Sure, it looks great when you do LFG and it's nice to impress the n00bs with that 55k survival instincts/defender's code proc. But it doesn't really help with, ya know, tanking.
Agility, however, is always good no matter what. While dodge is subject to diminishing returns, each point of agility provides the same survivability no matter what. This is the same principle as armor; while armor doesn't give the same value for each point in terms of percentage reduction, each point gives a linear reduction of damage from the next. If you think of it that way, you can see why stacking agility makes sense. Agility also provides the most avoidance per point (raid buffed or not), crit, and a bit of armor. It is the only stat that gives mitigation, avoidance, and threat for a druid.
So here's the deal: you should have a good amount of health. That good amount is entirely based on your raid setup. I can't tell you how much you need. But here are some benchmarks to consider:
Patchwerk-25 hits the offtank for about 22k if you're a heroic-geared druid. 20k if you're naxx-geared.
Malygos-25 has a breath attack that can do 30k, plus a quick melee attack that does another 4k.
Sartharion-25 + 3 adds can (depending on the debuffs) hit for 35-39k.
Personally, I'm aiming for 42k raid buffed. That's enough to eat two hateful strikes with only HoTs rolling - and in practice that will not happen due to the other tank having more health at that point. It's enough to take on all other bosses. But again, this is entirely depending on what your situation is. And I won't cry all that much if I end up with only 40k.
Because of this change in philosophy, I've changed the rankings to favor agility heavily over stamina. This does alter the pre-naxx list, which is why I've kept these separate. I still think the pre-naxx gear list is correct because gearing up for naxx, you do want stamina aplenty. However, once you start collecting pieces that goes a bit lower in priority.
Threat and damage is still not a consideration in this list. I can understand why it might be - and if there's enough interest, I'll go back and revisit what I think the best threat stats are for a bear and how to optimize for it - but for normal tanking, at least right now, threat is simply not important.
The rating system I use is based on wowhead, and this is the weight:
Agility 110
Dodge 75
Stam 70
Defense 65
Armor 50
Expertise 22
That's for the leather pieces only. The nonleather pieces will have their own separate ranking system.
A big, special note here: this will be applicable and weighted for 3.0.4 changes. When there is a significant difference, I will list the values pre and post-nerf. Note that this only really affects jewelry and to a lesser extent a couple of leather pieces (the 226 ilvl pieces vs the 187 blues, if you're wondering) In general, there are very few pieces with no armor that also have good druid stats. In any case, the pre-3.0.4 change will be blisted in parenthesis.
A quick look into this reveals that if you're going to keep T6 gear for some reason (threat, perhaps?), the best pieces to keep are the bracers and belt. The worst are the legs and head.
Onto the rankings.
Chest
- Valorous Dreamwalker Rainments - 127.02 Heroic Gluth, Heroic 4 Horsemen, Archavon the Stone Reaper
- Deadly Gladiator's Dragonhide Robes -126.81. Arena rating, arena points.
- Chestpiece of Suspicion - 122.32. Heroic Instructor Razuvius, Heroic Gluth.
- Tunic of Dislocation - 119.92. Normal Gothik the Harvester, normal Gluth.
- Hateful Gladiator's Dragonhide Robes - 119.80. Arena rating, arena points
- Heroes' Dreamwalker Rainments - 119.72. 80 emblems of heroism, normal Gluth, normal 4 horsemen
- Tunic of Indulgence - 119.64. Normal Grobbulus, Normal Gluth
- Chestguard of the Recluse - 119.35. Heroic Malygos
- Polar Vest - 117.37. *Leatherworking BoE.
- Blade-Scarred Tunic - 113.47. Normal Sartharion.
- Savage Gladiator's Dragonhide Robes - 111.97. honor
- Harness of Carnal Instinct - 109.59. Sunwell Plateau
- Darkheart Chestguard - 108.60. Exalted with Knights of the Ebon Blade
- Crystal-Infused Tunic - 104.80. Heroic Nexus
- Exotic Leather Tunic - 101.55. quest in Utgarde Pinnacle
- Eviscerator's Chestguard - 98.90. Leatherworking BoE.
- Thunderheart Chestguard -94.31. Black Temple
Feet
- Footwraps of Vile Deceit - 89.31. Heroic Loatheb, Heroic Gluth.
- Deadly Gladiator's Boots of Triumph - 89.23. Arena rating, arena points.
- Hateful Gladiator's Boots of Triumph - 83.83. Arena rating, honor points
- Polar Boots* - 82.78. Leatherworking BoE.
- Boots of the Worshipper - 76.76. Normal Faerlina, normal Gluth.
- Slag Footguards - 76.38. Heroic Halls of Lightning
- Boots of Captain Ellis - 76.33. 40 emblems of valor.
- Dawnwalkers - 74.97. Heroic Anub'Rekhan, Heroic Gluth.
- Boots of the Whirling Mist - 74.29. Heroic Halls of Stone.
- Boots of the Neverending Path - 72.55. Exalted with Argent Crusade.
- Gorloc Muddy Footwraps - 72.47. Heroic Gundrak
- Jormscale Footpads - 70.25. Leatherworking BoE
- Thunderheart Treads - 67.82. Sunwell Plateau
- Rhino Hide Kneeboots - 64.59. Quest in Gundrak
- Shadowmaster's Boots - 63.09. Black Temple
Gloves
- Deadly Gladiator's Dragonhide Gloves - 84.64. Arena rating, arena points.
- Handwraps of Preserved History - 81.68. Quest in CoT Strat
- Valorous Dreamwalker Handgrips - 80.61. Heroic Archavon, Heroic Sartharion
- Gloves of Fast Reactions - 80.61. Heroic Sapphrion
- Hateful Gladiator's Dragonhide Gloves - 79.36. Arena Rating, arena points
- Rapid Attack Gloves - 77.82. Normal Razuvious, normal Gluth.
- Dislocating Handguards - 77.13. Heroic Faerlina.
- Frosted Adroit Handgrips - 75.33. Heroic Malygos.
- Heroes' Dreamwalker Handgrips - 75.33. 60 emblems of heroism.
- Savage Gladiator's Dragonhide Gloves - 73.80. honor
- Gloves of the Forest Drifter - 66.35. Sunwell Plateau
- Eviscerator's Gauntlets - 65.38. Leatherworking BoE.
- Seafoam Gauntlets - 65.15. Leatherworking BoE
- Gloves of Immortal Dusk - 63.09. Leatherworking BoE (requires sunmotes)
- Discarded Slaughterhouse Gloves - 57.83. Quest in icecrown
- Thunderheart Gauntlets - 58.65. Mount Hyjal
Head
- Hood of the Exodus - 116.40. Heroic Gothik or Gluth.
- Deadly Gladiator's Dragonhide Helm - 114.44. Arena rating, arena points
- Hateful Gladiator's Dragonhide Helm - 107.68. Arena rating, arena points
- Valorous Dreamwalker Headguard - 107.07. Heroic Kel'Thuzad.
- Weakness Spectralizers - 105.36. Engineering BoE (requires engineering rating)
- Helm of the Vast Legions - 103.49. Normal Sapphiron.
- Heroes Dreamwalker Headguard - 101.71. Normal Kel'Thuzad.
- Savage Gladiator's Dragonhide Helm - 100.36. honor
- Mask of the Watcher - 92.25. Heroic Oculus
- Shroud of Darkness - 90.92. Heroic Violet Hold
- Mask of the Fury Hunter - 86.43. Sunwell Plateau
- Thunderheart Cover - 79.90. Mount Hyjal
- Cover of Silence* - 95.79. Heroic Thadius or Gluth.
- Headguard of Retaliation* - 87.35. quest in Utgarde Pinnacle
- Eviscerator's Facemask *- 86.28. leatherworking BoE
Legs
- Valorous Dreamwalker Legguards - 117.94. Heroic Archavon, 75 emblems of valor, Heroic Thaddius.
- Deadly Gladiator's Dragonhide Legguards - 117.63. Arena points, arena honor, heroic Archavon.
- Leggings of the Honored - 116.25. Heroic Sartharion + 2 adds.
- Hateful Gladiator's Dragonhide Legs - 110.87. Arena rating, arena points
- Heroes' Dreamwalker Legguards - 110.62. Normal Thaddius
- Leggings of Fleeting Moments - 110.46. Heroic Gothik.
- Gored Hide Legguards - 105.13. Heroic Gundrak.
- Savage Gladiator's Dragonhide Legs - 103.29. honor
- Leggings of Discord - 103.20. Normal Maexxna.
- Mind-expanding Leggings - 102.66. Revered with Kirin Tor
- Infectious Skitterer Leggings - 101.68. Heroic Maexxna.
- Ravenous Leggings of the Furbolg - 101.15. heroic utgarde pinnacle
- Chain Gang Legguards - 97.17. BoE from Violet Hold
- Leggings of the Immortal Beast - 93.78. Sunwell Plateau
- Eviscerator's Legguards - 90.48. Leatherworking BoE.
- Constellation Leggings - 90.28. Normal Halls of Stone.
- Tameless Breeches - 80.38. Badges.
- Tattooed Deerskin Leggings - 80.00. Quest in Violet Hold
- Thunderheart Leggings - 78.98. Black Temple
Shoulders
- Valorous Dreamwalker Shoulderpads - 93.83. Heroic Loatheb, 60 emblems of valor.
- Deadly Gladiator's Dragonhide Spaulders - 93.83. Arena rating, arena points
- Trollwoven shoulders - 89.84. Leatherworking BoE
- Heroes' Dreamwalker Shoulderpads - 88.29. Normal Loatheb.
- Hateful Gladiator's Dragonhide Spaulders - 88.29. arena rating, arena points
- Concealment Shoulderpads - 87.23. Heroic Sartharion.
- Spaulders of the Careless Thief - 83.83. Heroic Nexus
- Spaulders of Egotism - 82.78. Heroic Razuvious.
- Savage Gladiator's Dragonhide Spaulders - 82.47. honor
- Spaulders of Resumed Battle - 79.75. Normal Noth.
- Sprinting Shoulderpads - 79.32. Heroic Ahn'kahet
- Demontooth Shoulderpads - 74.13. Sunwell Plateau
- Eviscerator's Shoulderpads - 73.80. Leatherworking BoE.
- Thunderheart Pauldrons - 70.15. Black Temple
Belt
- Deadly Gladiator's Belt of Triumph - 79.92. Arena rating, honor
- Hateful Gladiator's Belt of Triumph - 74.77. arena rating, honor
- Trollwoven Girdle - 73.94. Leatherworking BoE
- Polar Cord* - 73.47. Leatherworking BoE.
- Sharp-Barbed Leather belt - 73.36. heroic utgarde keep
- Stalk-skin Belt - 71.13. Heroic Heigan.
- Belt of the Tortured - 69.72. Heroic Patchwerk.
- Jorach's Crocolisk Skin Belt - 69.17. Emblems of Heroism
- Blistered Belt of Decay - 69.13. Normal Grobbulus.
- Ley-whelphide belt - 65.94. normal and Oculus
- Glitterscale Wrap - 62.78. Revered with Oracles
- Eviscerator's Waistguard - 61.17. Leatherworking BoE.
- Thunderheart Waistguard - 56.30. Sunwell Plateau
- Don Alejandro's Money Belt - 55.48. Mount Hyjal
- Waistguard of the Great Beast - 52.40. 60 Badges.
- Belt of Natural Power - 52.30. Leatherworking BoE
Wrist
- Thrusting Bands - 60.30. Heroic Noth.
- Deadly Gladiator's Armwraps of Triumph - 59.77. Arena rating, honor
- Sinner's Bindings - 57.25. Heroic Maexxna.
- Hateful Gladiator's Armwraps of Triumph - 55.71. arena rating, honor
- Wristwraps of the Cutthroat - 52.76. BoE, 60 emblems of valor.
- Bindings of the Tunneler - 52.55. Heroic Utgarde Keep
- Dragonfriend Bracers - 52.04. Exalted with Wyrmrest Accord
- Cuffs of Dark Shadows - 50.92. Heroic Heigan.
- Drake-champion's Bracers - 50.05. Heroic Oculus
- Thunderheart Wristguards - 46.23. Sunwell Plateau
- Eviscerator's Bindings - 47.07. Leatherworking BoE
- Njorndar Furywraps - 46.45. Quest in Icecrown
- Vindicator's Dragonhide Bindings - 45.94. BC PvP honor
- Band of the Swift Paw - 38.78. badges
24 comments:
Under Head Gear:
Shroud of Darkness - 90.92. Heroic Violet Eye
Violet Hold, not Violet Eye
Nothing major. :)
By the way, I had previously been using Rawr to compare gear, but when it decided to put Cloak of Tormented Skies higher than the Durable Nerubhide Cape, I began to get concerned. Most of my gear is on your list, thankfully. Looking to start Heroics at the end of this week.
Helm of Cheated Fate has been missed from you list, it should come in just under Shroud of Darkness
Techwolf - Hah, thanks. And I completely understand why Rawr does that, because pre 3.0.4 that really is better; losing 2000 armor is just not acceptable for a bit of dodge.
Good luck with running heroics. One really nice think is that Utgarde Keep is one of the easiest heroics to run and has 3 very strong upgrades. The belt at the end is particularly good.
Anonymous - Helm of Cheated Fate is worse than either Mask of the Watcher or Shroud of Darkness; I don't usually list more than 2 heroic rewards.
The big clincher for it is that it has no meta, and as a result loses out on that 2% armor. That's a huge hit for bears. I'd rather have the thunderheart helm with that meta than helm of cheated fate without it.
Thanks a lot for this, helps us lazybears get our head around a few things, glad to see I've made quite good investments picking up bracers from Maexxna and the dawnwalkers, which I personally rank a bit higher for the hit. And just as I wrote this the 2nd part came up, more reading to be done :)
Whilst you may think that the meta is so important that it is worth keeping T6 over it, you have to realise that most people never got the chance to get that item. The Helm of Cheated Fate is within reach of the vast majority. (but that is a huge discussion and a bit off-topic)
The Helm of Cheated Fate has more armour and agility but only 2 less stamina than the lowest item in your list, the Eviscerator's Facemask. Are you downranking the cheated fate so much due to possible parry-haste counters?
Anon -
I absolutely appreciate your use of whilst. :)
Like I said before, the list only had listed the best in a given category. It isn't listing every single possible or reasonable selection. The Eviscerator Facemask is listed because it can be crafted and it happens to be the best crafted item. The Helm of Cheated Fate isn't listed because two other heroic helms are.
That's really it. It's a decent helm and certainly better than the eviscerator gear, but I didn't want to make lists where every single item is discussed or ranked. That's what Emmerald's is for. In this case, I kept every item that was on my pre-naxx list on this one, so that everyone could see how they all rank together without having to go back and forth.
Great work Kalon, thanks for taking the effort of putting this together.
I wonder - can you elaborate on how you arrived at those specific weights for the stats? I agree with them for the most part, but I'd really like to take a look at the the math.
Do you have plans for compiling similar lists for Cat gear?
I don't understand wowhead's weight system. You gave armor a weight of 50, yet an item with 200+ armor only has a total score of 60. When I'd expect the score to be at least 200*50. What exactly is going on?
UK has some good upgrades, but I've already crafted my Trollwoven Shoulders/Belt. Still, it's a good place to start at to see how well my gear (and possible group) holds up before digging into something like HoL or Oc.
I looked into the wowhead weight system a bit more, if you click on an item's weight while in the list view you will toggle between 3 formats. As a percentage (top item is 100%), as a small number like 60.5 and as a total number like 25k.
The 25K number is computed as I would expect, stat1 * weight1 + stat2 * weight2 == big number, etc. The percentage view is easy to understand. I have no clue how they came up with the small numbers. It is the small numbers you have been using. Any ideas where those come from?
Hey, Korhaug - thanks for coming by and the kind words.
On the weight scale I used: I wanted to weight the itemization cost of agility and stamina the same, and then give an edge slightly to agility. Because stamina is 50% cheaper than any other stat (hence why gems have 16 agi and 24 stam) my weights are close to the 99/66 ratio you would see, though I weight agility a bit more. For dodge/defense, I wanted to give them a value close to stamina but not so much that it's insane. (not that it matters for leather pieces). For Expertise, I kept the ratio that I had used previously, making it about 1/5th as valuable per point as agility.
There really wasn't much in the way of me computing specific ratios. I compared results using Rawr, Toskk's guides and Emmerald and came up with my own weights. It's very much subjective and very much what I would do. However - the end result of this, if you follow the gear, is 42k health buffed, 55% avoidance, 37k armor and a good amount of threat. That's the numbers I"m aiming for right now.
Felkan, I believe the small number is a reasonable weighted value based on the overall values but not as a percentage. I also think that it has to do with the scores of all items that were processed and taking a median value of them and scaling from there. It is basically a 'how much better is item A compared to item B', which is why I use it. I'll look into it more and find out though. Thanks!
Techwolf - you absolutely want the Feral Enraged Staff from there, and the bracers are really good too. Since there are only three bosses and each boss is basically a tank & spank, it goes fast and can be run every day without pain. Keep doing it some. :)
Just thougt you'd like to know, the link for item 9 in your wrists catagory is not working properly. It links to Dragonfriend Bracers, when I think you intended it to link to Drake-champion's Bracers.
Great lists - I've been meaning to do this for a while, but the push to 80 with my schedule has been all-consuming.
I don't trust any gear lists with stamina ranked well above agility, so when I made my pre-Naxx list I weighted them almost equally. Interesting to see that you put agility a fair margin ahead of stamina though - I guess it all depends on what your health currently is.
Kostamojen - thanks for pointing that out. It should be corrected now. Oops.
Karthis, thanks. :) The main reason that agility is ranked so high is because agility comes at such a high price relative to stamina. If you weight agility and stamina the exact same, stamina will always be 'better' due to how much it costs in ilvl budget. And like I said, health is just not an issue right now. More on that in a bit.
Kalon, not sure I should comment on a post this old, but I wanted your opinion. I'm a Druid LW and I'll hit 80 in a couple levels. I'll immediatly power level my LW up then with all the leather I've collected, and was thinking along the way I'd make almost the entire Eviscerator's Set for myself. Most of them should be upgrades. Is that a good gear plan to start out grinding those heroics while I get geared up using your list? most of the Eviscerator's are fairly low on your lists, but i figure I have to start somewhere.
I'm finding I still have a lot of the gear I had from 70 even at 77, including the Tameless Breeches you told me to get.
Anyway, thanks for the info that you provide, I use it all the time!
Copey - the Eviscerator set is perfectly fine for doing most of the heroics. Definitely go for the Trollwoven Shoulders as soon as you can, but for the rest the Eviscerators should serve. Make sure to check out the normal instances too - especially the quest rewards. Doing normal Halls of Stone gives a good chest, and doing normal CoTStrat gives one of the best gloves in the game.
Why there isn't chest #9?
BTW very good guide! It's good to have it when you doubt about what item is an upgrade :D
Hi, Short Question. I got Sinners Bindings with a +27 Agi Gem, should i still go for the Trusting Bands, cause of the hit and expertise?
Anon - number 9 is a super secret drop that I'm not willing to tell you about. Some spoilers have to be kept around, ya know? Or I just messed up the HTML.
Brotea, my personal answer would be not to change 'em. The difference between the two is really minor. I would be going for almost every other piece of gear first - partially because it's likely to be a bigger upgrade for you, and partially because those thrusting bands are likely to be a bigger upgrade for someone who doesn't have these. If you were really short on expertise I might consider the thrusting anyway, but really - it's likely not worth the effort.
You might want to add these to the list:
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/december/ptr_9355_18.jpg
15 wintergrasp marks of honor
and especially:
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/december/ptr_9355_3.jpg
40 wintergrasp marks of honor
both are pretty much copies of the hateful gladiator counterparts with critical strike changed to armor penetration
Great list!
For legging, I would like to recommend
Legguards of Swarming Attacks
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43286
Socket it with a +24 stam gem and +55 stam armor kit and you're get a whopping +178 stamina.
It dropped on my first Heroic. ;p
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