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We are concerned about proc’ing a stat that can be readily capped especially on an item that provides a rather large passive armor pen bonus already. It could end up just never being attractive enough. Right now we are strongly considering just having it proc base-stat (strength, agility, etc.), haste, or crit depending on spec. We’ll be sure to let you know if we make this change.
Apparently they weren't kidding. Reports are that the new procs are agi, strength...and haste. Which is much better than arpen since chances are you're either soft-capped or close to being hard-capped.
Whereas haste just makes you more awesome. And there's no real danger of hitting the hard cap any time soon.
So if you were at all in doubt about whether or not you should get this trinket: you should get this trinket. It's going to be significantly better than anything else save what perhaps Arthas drops, all three stats are going to be a huge boost to DPS by themselves, and all three are very valued by druids. Point of fact, this might make a good argument for DBW going to ferals first; with this, even assuming best in slot trinkets DBW should be about a 200 DPS upgrade over the next best thing. Currently the stat value itself is worth around 300 DPS by itself; the proc is another 250. This will increase the DPS value of the proc by about 33%, making it close to a 650 DPS trinket - and that's the normal mode.
I know that rogues don't care about it nearly as much (they don't care about arpen as much); neither do enhancement shamen. I would imagine that it's going to be arms warriors and DKs, basically.
And you can bat your eyelashes and say how lovely it would be if you'd get it. :)
Also, this makes it the premiere threat trinket for bears. 600 haste is a lot of extra mauls.
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I think you meant to say that Mut rogues don't care about it as much. Combat loves ArPen so that plus the procs makes it an extremely nice Combat trinket. Definitely meh for Mut rogues though.
Posthumous - given how ridiculous mut is for damage right now, I kinda assumed that all rogues were Mut. :)
Combat does like it for that, that's true. But until combat gets remotely competitive with mut (I guess if you really want that 4% damage boost), I don't think they'll want it as much. Just on my personal experience, neither of our rogues seem to care about arpen at all and aren't going to roll on DBW; they've already either got BiS or are going to get it from Whispering Fanged Skull.
Hah, we've had 2 drop so far... one to a hunter and one to a rogue.
I'm going to have a hard time convincing them I should get to bid on it as a tank :)
Before this change I was planning on passing DW until I got closer to the armor pen hard cap . . . however, not anymore! But we just had one drop the first week and none since. Oh well, halfway to a 4 piece bonus.
Massive dos trinket upgrade for hunters as well.
Anon - why do I always forget hunters? Is it some kind of mental block where I hope that they'll just disappear so that ferals can get all the staves?
Yeah, hunters would love this.
Zoblefu - it would be pretty difficult, yeah. About as hard as me rolling on Sindragosa's Fang. Maybe that will have the same droprate for us as Juggernaut's Vitality does, so that everyone has it like rogues and priests (for PvP).
Mitch - I'll be at my 2p tonight. I got the chest already, and I think I'm going to break my 2p bonus and go for the shoulders.
I didn't even read this yet, Ill def have to see if this is in game or not yet. (I'm too busy staring at the pretty transformations most of the time heh)
I also just got my 2pt10 and droped my 2pt9 for it. It is very refreshing to have such cheap rips.
Vallen - grats on T10 :) And it's definitely in-game right now; multiple people have stated they're only seeing arpen procs when in bear form (no lie) but not at all in cat, and they're seeing the haste buffs.
Also - giev trinket!
On a completely side note, who else is pissed about having to wear a stupid kilt again?
It's definitely live. I get haste now and no longer get ArP. I wish they'd changed the buff so we still got the Iron Dwarf form instead of two different Vrykul. It was nice being able to visually tell which buff as soon as it procced. Plus the Iron Dwarf had a dance and the Vrykul doesn't ;)
Dropping 2t9 for 2t10 doesn't seem worth it to me for cat. The 2t10 is somewhat weak so I would think you wouldn't want to drop 2t9 until you get 4t10, especially if your t9 are 258. Shoulders especially are one of the stronger slots for t9 because of the ArP.
I wanted to get tier shoulders first, but I didn't have much in terms of hard mode 25ToC so going into ICC; I had 245 ToC tier helm/shoulders, 258 leggings of the broken beast, and 10 ToC HM chest and gloves. With that setup I decided to get the 264 tier chest first, and then got the 264 tier gloves last night even though I really, really, really wanted to run around chasing gnomes threatening to eat them with my shoulders!
Vallen - I find myself utterly uncaring as long as I don't have to wear the gimp mask as my offtier piece. A dress? Oh, a dress is lovely compared to happy spank time for tauren. Maybe it's different for NElfs.
Cainman - Rawr agrees with you. Especially if you don't get a 264 upgrade for it immediately; then it becomes a significant DPS downgrade. That being said, the 245 T9 shoulders and 251 T10 shoulders are almost identical, trading only crit for haste. As such it's not too painful to swap 'em. But breaking the set bonus kinda hurts.
Mitch - I am in precisely the same situation and came to exactly the same conclusion. I replaced my chest because it was the easiest thing to replace painlessly. I've got T9 head & shoulders. The gloves are the next lowest item that isn't tier, but replacing that with T10 means having to buy another T10 piece later on (assuming I got Aldriana's) which would be suboptimal.
But replacing the legs would mean I'm way over on expertise since I've got the hat, which isn't much better.
I think that in the end I'll end up getting the gloves, since at worst I'll be able to use them for bears and in the meantime will have decent DPS. The issue there is that without the T10 legs, you'd have almost no expertise. Ugh.
In my specific case, I have a 258 chest and pants so replacing 258 gear for 251 gear doesn't make much sense when I'm wearing 2pt9 245 gear.
I'm sure a lot of others out there are in the same position.
Fair enough. I was using the standard 2t9 of shoulders and helm. When I got DBW I wanted to go hard cap because my other trinket is heroic DV, so I didn't want to keep using Runestone. So I picked up 264 t10 legs first because the helm is actually the piece of t9 I'd like to replace being that it is a slot that I don't have ArP in, but I didn't want to lose all expertise so legs had to come first. I'll probably do gloves next just because I'd like 4t10 as fast as possible, but I want to do 2t9 and 2t10 until the switchover. Knowing that eventually gloves would hopefully be replaced like you said Kalon, is one of the things I've been debating though. I suppose I could get a different piece of tier 9 but that would somewhat defeat the purpose as it'd be trading an ArP piece for a non ArP piece.
I have a feeling some of our Mut rogues will want this trinket mainly because it will be rediculously overpowered in PVP and they all are really into arena. Hopefully they aren't that greedy, but I wouldn't put it past them they are rogues ;)
I still maintain that if a feral ever loses a staff or polearm to a hunter, you need to have a serious talk with whoever's in charge of loot rules.
No one lets rogues win bows over hunters, do they?
Mut rogues are going to stay away from this now that Tiny Abomination in a Jar is known and is known to be awesome - but Combat rogues (which just got more awesome) are going back to wanting all that shiny ArPen stuff thanks to the nerf.
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. :)
I'm not sure if I missed this posted anywhere or not...are we going to be able to use both the normal and heroic versions at the same time like we can Juggernaut's Vitality and Death's Verdict?
Shadrilin: no, the heroic and normal version of the same item is now exclusive of eachother, goes for rings as well.
Kalon: With the growing amount of armor pen on BiS bear gear, how exactly does arp scale as a threat stat? given 4 tier 10, we will be sitting on quite more than the previous tiers BiS. Im in no way fit to do the maths, but you seem quite cunning in those regards :)
ArP is a great threat stat, especially for AoE threat. Haste is better for single target threat, but ArP is close and I could see it coming to a point where ArP passes haste if you get enough of it.
Dennis - thanks for the comment. That was something I always wanted to revisit, and that gave me the impetus to go do exactly that. I did a new post here:
http://wowthinktank.blogspot.com/2010/01/druid-threat-value-of-arpen.html
And Bob - it turns out haste isn't even as good as arpen at basic levels. Armor pen simply is awesome when your biggest threat move does 7k damage a hit.
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