Friday, October 8, 2010

[Cat] Cataclysm cats part 4: the case for haste

Previous posts here:

After a lot of digging on EJ, I found good evidence for the haste regeneration formula, and it roughly corresponds to my somewhat loose testing so it seems to make sense. The haste energy regeneration formula is as follows:

energy regeneration/second = 10*(1+ haste%)

In other words, if you have 20% haste, you regenerate 12 energy/second. If that sounds're probably right. At 20% haste, in order to gain one extra shred you wait 20 seconds. That's helpful, don't get me wrong, but with the sorry state of damage on shreds this isn't nearly as impressive as you might think.

Furthermore, the relative percentages of damage aren't close to what they are now. With the loss of arpen and the loss of Feral AP, melee damage is significantly less. Ironically bleeds are significantly more than they were before (or perhaps they're the same, but as a relative level they went higher. I'm seeing reports of bleed damage being as high as 50-60% of overall damage at raid-buffed levels, and melee close to 25-30%.

With melee that low and with bleeds that high, haste only improves about 50% of your total damage. If you assume that shreds are 20% of your damage (which is actually a bit high) and melee is 30%, each percent of haste does the following:

1% haste increases your melee damage by 1%, which increases your overall dps by .3%.
Assume the rate of shreds per a fight is roughly constant. In a 40 second period I showed that you have about time to do 7 shreds. This means that each % of haste in a 40 second period gives you .1 shred, such that 10% haste gives you one extra shred in that time. This equates to 1/70 more shred damage per 1% haste, or:
1% haste = 1/70 * 20% = .28%

The total gain of dps for haste is thus about .6% directly. In addition more haste gives you more combo points, which is potentially a source of ferocious bites - but only a small one. You'll get haste%/70*crit rate more combo points per % of haste in a 40 second period, which at 50% crit rate is about .07 CP per haste%. Not thrilling.

Sadly, this is about as good as I'm going to get without a simulator, but it roughly confirms reports from others about how well haste scaling and haste conversion is compared to other stats. This disappoints me; I want haste to be an awesome ability because haste is fun. Being able to do more things is more fun. Hitting harder, bleeds doing more, critting more often - these don't directly impact the rotation and ability to do actions like haste does. Sadly, haste doesn't look to be that great.

Note that if haste made dots scale, haste would immediately be competitive with crit rate and likely close to agility. what blizzard wants, right? Sigh.


Doug said...

Is feral as it is right now, going to be a viable raid spec in 4.0.1? I mean Sub is currently viable and maybe 80% of Muti or Com, but will feral even be that?

Everything I've been reading says no and Blizz seems to have no visible fix in sight.

Anyway so Hit/Exp->Agi->Crit->Haste it seems is the way to go when 4.0.1 hits. How exciting...

tbot said...

Going back to your "The case for mastery" post. You compared it to crit saying that if bleeds are more then 40% of your dmg mastery will likely beat out crit.

In light of the recent post, and the lacklustre haste, would you suggest using mastery as the top "yellow" option? (gem color)

alexandru said...

So far I don't see arpen socketing being replaced with some other stat but who knows at high lvl gear what's gonna be it's a waiting game some stuff may get buffed some nerfed bottom line we will have yet again a nice template x% crit y % haste etc till the bottom caps r done then for sure one of the stats will be best what only time will tell.

Kind regards Atu the true Brewmaster :)

Anonymous said...

Alexandru, you need to use more dots in your post:)...............

alexandru said...

Ye agree on that but find it hard when posting from the phone :((

Logique said...

With mastery being weighted the same as crit rating, and increased regen from haste not being all that valuable yet. Perhaps it would be prudent to reforge haste into mastery. Since crit rating is on most, if not all, of current feral gear once the patch hits, it won't be available in the reforging process on most pieces. The real question is, is haste more valuable that mastery. This will tell us whether to reforge our haste or not. Tonight prior to the patch dropping tomorrow I am going to make and host 15 parses to try to shed light on the value of each gem scheme, and get more a definitive grasp on what stats will play the most essential roles in Feral DPS in the upcoming months before Cataclysm is released.

I'm going to do 5 parses per setup to normalize any discrepancy in rng from fight to fight.

The first 5 will be:

Gem/Reforge to the Hit/Exp caps and gem pure haste gems after that. (Even though we know this is not viable, it will be interesting to see the difference in DPS on a parse averaged out over 5 attempts)

The second 5 will be:

Gem/Reforge to the Hit/Exp caps and gem pure agility after that.

The third 5 will be Gem/Reforge to the HIt/Exp Caps, gem pure agility, and Reforge remaining haste on my gear to Mastery.

I'll link the parses after they are hosted.

Logique said...

Unfortunately it seem the PTR is down at the moment. As soon as the patch goes live I'll be sure to try this out.

Lax said...

Doesn't haste and mastery buff eachother? More bleed dmg makes haste more attractive and faster dots makes mastery more attractive.

So there must be some point where mastery buffs haste enough to be viable.

Lax said...

One lvl 80 using Mew reported:
Agility (2.42), Mastery (1.95), Haste (1.72), and Hit/Exp (1.47)

So haste is only slightly worse than mastery. Reforging crit to mastery is definitely the way to go for now.

Tinderhoof said...

"More bleed dmg makes haste more attractive and faster dots makes mastery more attractive."

That would be the case if Haste affected melee dots. It does not.

Dysheki said...

Yeah, I reforged lots of crit to mastery and some haste to mastery on basically every piece. I added some hit to my weapon just because I'm awfully low for my liking (180 hit, 106 expertise - 5.4% chance to be missed/dodged) but oh well. All sockets are agi except for one with hit and some agi/haste gems if it took one gem for a +6 agi bonus.

Did 15.1k on Saurfang. Used to do 17.5k-18.5k without a HLK weapon and did the 15.1k with the HLK weapon.

Anything with target switching absolutely blows since a little over 45% comes from long term bleeds and FB and shred are awfully low when gearing without armor pen.

Oh well. We'll see where the buffs come from.

Hassan Raza said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Logique said...

Not to worry, Ghostcrawler has mentioned they are aware of the dps problems in Feral DPS, and are addressing it within a few days.

Frick said...

Hey Kal! I am curious to know if you've done your "mathy stuff" for bears yet. I'd love to see an updated WoWHead Ranking and was curious of new stat valuations with reforging into mastery in the mix.
Thanks as always for all your help!

Anonymous said...

I was wondering if anyone's heard anything new regarding wrist enchants? I checked mmo-champion today, and the leatherworking wrist enhancement looks like it may blow just about every other profession out of the water for us.