Monday, December 7, 2009

[Druid] If you can get one thing tomorrow...

Since the 3.3 patch is likely going to come out tomorrow, and the loot lists aren't remotely ready - I wanted to leave you with one piece of advice.

Hope that this Sack of Awesome drops for you in 25-man gunship. Sure, there's lots of other pieces that are great, like Deathbringer's Will (from Saurfang-25) and Toskk's tribute wristguards (also from Saurfang-25). You can try and get the Unidentifiable Organ from 10-man Gunship too. There's plenty of decent rings and cloaks in both 10 and 25 man, though don't go all nuts on them; loot lists are still probably pretty raw. Heck, go forth and get the Quel'Delar questline so you can go grab Lightborn Spire, which is a fine tanking weapon if you don't have Twin's Pact.

But if you can get Ikfirus' sack of wonder, you should be very happy. It's good for bears, it's good for cats, it's good for anyone. Okay, maybe it's not the best for cats - but it's still going to be damn good, and should at least tide you over until you get your 4pT10.

Good luck with Icecrown!


Joshua Muñoz said...

I know this is pretty unrelated, but what do you guys, the WoW ThinkTank Nation, think of my (potentially) unorthodox bear build?

I'd be happy to answer and questions about the decisions I made. Just want to see if it's viable.

Joshua Muñoz said...

Ah, seems there wasn't enough room for the link.

Anonymous said...

You lose about 10% of your threat (20% less maul damage and no crits on lacerate) for 4% more damage and a reduction in cost of shifting that you probably wont use.

It doesn't really work as a hybrid build either as the loss of shred damage/rip crits hurts it too much.

Anonymous said...


One question I have about your bear gear weights. Should Armor not have 2 values: one for base gear where it gets the bear multiplier; one for the items that don't get the bear multiplier.

I understand that this would require splitting up the list into 2.


Kalon said...

Josh, I can't see that build. Sorry. :( Both links appear to fail.

I will say that losing Rend & tear (which it sounds like you're doing) is a very poor choice unless you're very well geared or don't care at all about threat; R&T is about 12% more threat by itself.

Anon - I should do a weight for armor that way. For most everything it doesn't end up mattering much; leather doesn't radically change between pieces and the only piece that has extra is a cloak, which is something you want armor on anyway. In the end the values stay about right. The problem is the weapon, which i've still not released a good weighing on.

Xarnen said...

Do you think hit/stam gems with all these yellow sockets are going to be a good option for bears until said sack of awesomeness is obtained?

Joshua Muñoz said...

Ok, what about this one?

And my next (and thing I've been wondering about the most) question, what's up with Primal Precision?

I've seen a lot of "cookie cutter" builds with it for the 10 expertise but at my current thing, don't have the points for it. I know the 3 in King of the Jungle might seem ill-spent, but isn't there a 4set bonus in the T10 gear for KotJ?

Kalon said...

Xarnen - there are a ton of hit rings, cloaks and necks out there. I don't think hit is going to be an issue for a while. I certainly wouldn't ever advocate gemming for it until you're expertise capped, though it's not the worst thing ever for some yellow socket with a juicy bonus.

Josh - as I said a while back, as long as you pick the standard things it's going to be viable. Whether it's 'good' or not is another issue. It's certainly a decent hybrid build, but losing primal precision is super painful for both. Having 10 expertise - which is the equivalent of 80 rating points - is huge. The secondary issue is that it makes hit/expertise hugely important, as every finisher missed costs you energy.

Plus you don't have omen of clarity, which is the best single point you can spend for cats ever.

So I...I guess I don't know what you're trying to do with this build. If it's for bears, it chooses hugely suboptimal talents like shredding attacks over primal precision, doesn't have naturalist but does have MSS (which is much worse than naturalist point for point), and has worse threat and damage and mitigation (due to lost expertise) compared to most other builds while being a bit more hybrid. If it's for hybridness, it keeps most of the necessary cat talents but does things like have imp mangle, which is suboptimal compared to primal precision or naturalist.

It's just confusing. What are you trying to accomplish with it?

Joshua Muñoz said...

I don't care about cat DPS'ing at all, wasn't trying to build a hybrid set at all, really, just pure bear.

I guess I always sort of started basing my builds off of you 56/15 set from a couple of posts ago. However, you DO take Primal Precision and not KotJ.

I can understand why you say Shredding Attacks is supplemental, I guess I was just going to reduce rage costs of all my main moves so I never end up being rage starved. I'm actually using 5/5 Feral Aggression right now but I've been examining it pretty closely to try and see if I can come up with something better.

The only reason I've got KotJ down (not for mana reduction), is for the T10 4set bonus:

"Your Enrage ability no longer decreases your armor and instead decreases all damage taken by 12%, and the periodic damage done by your Rake ability can now be a critical strike."

So then you'd have less dmg taken and more dished out. But I suppose I could not have it until I actually was pushing T10 4p, but even when I got it, what would I do then? I mean, unless in the grand scheme of things, it's still not worth the 15% temp damage increase, as a bear.

I guess, after all this talking, my build is identical to your "USE AT YOUR OWN RISK" build, except I'm taking 5/5 in Ferocity instead of Feral Aggression.

Kalon said...

Josh, your build isn't remotely the same as mine. Let's go through the points:

Feral aggro instead of ferocity: covered that.

Shredding attacks instead of primal precision - so you'd rather reduce lacerate by 2 (which is your least-used threat attack most of the time) instead of having 10 expertise skill?

KotJ instead of 3 points in naturalist - okay, but why have the points in MSS instead?

I get not having OoC - that's not required for a bear by any means. But not having primal precision is horrible unless you have 56 expertise skill. And having shredding attacks is even worse - you could instead have 4% more damage via naturalist.

I'm totally fine with KotJ, especially considering the 4pT10 bonus (though that's not going to occur for another couple months, thinking about what you'll do to get it is good). KotJ used every time it's up will result in about 2% more damage overall, which can be awesome - but it's not as good an upgrade as naturalist ever could be.

If anything, I'd consider replacing imp mangle with it.

Joshua Muñoz said...

No, I mean a NEW, even MORE revised build. I was messing around my my WoWHead one and when I finished with it, it was identical to yours, sans FA and +Ferocity.


Trust me, I hear everything everyone is saying, and with every suggestion and new bit of information I'm back at the drawing board.

Kalon said...

Ah, I see. It's still missing primal precision.

Primal precision per point is 2.5% threat extra by itself before the dodge cap, and 1.25% threat per point after the dodge cap. KotJ doesn't come close to this. That it also makes your threat smoother and does things like reduce parry haste (which reduces damage) makes it even better.

Joshua Muñoz said...

That's weird. It's def got 0/3 in KotJ, 2/2 in Primal Precision, 5/5 in Naturalist on my screen.

Joshua Muñoz said...

Tell me if that one works.

Copey said...

I disagree Kalon. Heavily.

"If you can get one thing tomorrow..."

The answer should be “all of your add-ons working”. :)

Then, second thing? Totally the Sack of Awesome.

jacemora said...

"go forth and get the Quel'Delar questline"

How? I read you have to find an epic drop in the 5 man first?

Zoble said...

So, my tanky weapon is Lupine Longstaff from regular twins... not heroic twins. I also have another one (2 of same weapon) that I can gem/enchant differently if I want for dps.

I was lucky enough to get the hilt and finished the quest today. A bit sad that I lose 22 stamina compared to Lupine Longstaff, but seems a decent upgrade other than that.

Seems an obvious DPS upgrade, with more of everything except stamina.

How does it rank in your bear loot rankings compared to the ToC weapons?

Anonymous said...


Just wondering if you plan on using same weighting system for 3.3 as 3.2. I'm desperate for a tank gear rank list!


Kalon said...

Zoble, you _should_ be able to see lightborn scepter on the bear weapon list - and right now it ranks higher than any weapon out of normal ToC/hard mode 10-man ToC, but lower than the hard mode 25-man ToC pieces. But that's something of an antiquated weighing. It's probably better than most of the PvP pieces, and worse than the pieces from ToGC 25.

Obara - the weighing will be pretty close to what it is now. I've not gone through it yet, but if anything the only thing I'll change is increasing the weight of expertise on gear and decreasing the value of armor/stam on weapons.

Kalon said...

Oh, and Jace - yes, you do have to get the epic questline via a drop. I'm suggesting that you try and get said drop :)

Forty said...

I was really looking forward to the Deathbringer's Will (, but I found out that the cat's proc is Str, Agi, and ArP. How do you feel about it now if we're going to shoot for the hard ArP cap, and then have a chance of getting 600 wasted ArP for 30 seconds? Would you just try and hit the soft-cap of 800? You get about 470 ArP with this trinket and 4 piece cat dps (ungemmed).

Kalon said...

Forty - I don't think it's going to be that big a deal. It'll make the proc only 66% as effective, but thats' still going to be a good proc most of the time - and more importantly it's going to be a good static ability. The arpen proc happens infrequently enough that you don't want to base your other gearing on it.