Monday, January 19, 2009

[General] Titanguard out, content still trivial

Well, it's official - GC has gone out and said that Titanguard won't be making it in, and explained why.

What this does for druids: not a lot. It would've been another nice source of stamina for Sarth3D, but for normal tanking duties you'd still want mongoose. Having options is nice, though, and I was really looking forward to having a stam stick and an avoidance stick. Ah well.

What this does for paladins/warriors: OMG END OF THE WORLD AAAAAAH. Or, ya know, not. It's true - there just aren't any particularly sexy enchants on weapons right now. Mongoose for warriors and paladins is pretty subpar given the typical fast attack speed for them. The exception would be if they're using Broken Promise for some reason; if they do that, mongoose should proc about the same for a warrior that it does for a druid. (Paladins are still screwed, as most of their threat-generating attacks aren't weapon based). At the same time though, what options do they really have? Yes, 75 stamina or 50 stamina would've been the best for them, but at the same time 50 stamina really isn't that much on the grand scheme of things. Compare this to 63 spellpower or berserker, and it's just seemingly really arbitrary that tanks can't get anything of this nature.

What I'd like to see: a 50 stamina enchant that costs roughly the same mats as 50 spellpower does. Then a better tanking enchant that doesn't give stamina but does give some kind of mitigation ability based on damage dealt. It should not have a proc mechanic; that screws over the fast-hitting attack method of the warrior and the lack of physical attacks of the paladin. Ideally it'd have an internal cooldown but a high proc chance, so that the overall uptime is consistent and it can give the tank some control. Let that be the one that costs mats similar to Berserking or Black Magic. Make it only slightly more powerful than the 50 stamina enchant, but definitely make it work out that it's more powerful overall. This isn't that hard; 50 stamina doesn't win out all the time, and depending on the enchant could be much better for some fights and worse for others. For instance, on the wow forums I recommended an enchant that occasionally creates a spell reflect shield with 3 charges; if the spell could not be reflected, it would be reduced in damage by a certain static amount. This wouldn't be great against Patchwerk but would rock on Malygos and Sarth - and it'd be great for druids and paladins, who don't have as many anti-magic alternatives. But would you use it all the time? Probably not.

With all of that being said, tanks aren't exactly crying out for a new enchant to their weapon because they can't do the content. They're just bored with using BC-level enchants on their new shinies. I can appreciate that too; it's kind of lame hunting down the couple of people still around with mongoose to go log in to their alt and make it for me every time I get something new. My gut feeling is that they didn't want to do Titanguard because they've already very tightly tuned Ulduar around expected stam values for tanks, and giving them more would make it that much easier. We'll see, but it's hard not to be disappointed that there still is no tanking-specific enchant at any real level other than a weapon chain.


Sir Nicholai said...

Meh. I guess I'll have to stick with my intellect enchant on my Red Sword of Courage for another patch cycle (maintankadin here).
It just kindof feels sucky that for pally tanks, there are hardly any worthwhile enchants. ells at me for misenchanting it every time I check myself there, and says I should be using "Titanium Weapon Chain, Mongoose, Exceptional Agility, Superior Potency, Lifeward" none of which are actually very compelling, especially since I can already tank everything in the game. *shrug* wtb tank enchant plz.

Marino said...

As a druid mongoose is disappointing/boring. As enchanter (and able to do mongoose) I like it though. I am loved by all rogues who get ok, but not the best weapons and.. well... all those tbc enchanting materials gained from disenchanting all old gear should be used for something... no? ;)

Shamad said...

It all makes sense as you say, and it's not as if it really affects the game, but it does boggle the mind that tanks are the only people running around with a TBC enchant in an otherwise holey WotLK world. Anyway, I got so fed up with Mongoose I went and got accuracy. As if any of it matters when the content is this easy.

Anonymous said...

Yep its a pity there's no new good tanking enchant, but their explanation for removing titan was pretty complelling: all tanks would get it, meaning all tanks would get a big stam buff, meaning all bosses would have to be buffed a little or suddenly they'd be easier. Meaning if you didnt get the enchant, you were at a disadvantage... so you are forced to get the enchant or suffer. That's why blizzard is all about options, not a single "must have".

Although it sucks not to have a wrath enchant, this whole dialogue highlighted how complex it can be introducing a new enchant to the game. I'm more than glad blizzard take tremendous care to avoid spoiling the game in these sorts of ways, rather than cave in to all the pressure from bored little tankers like ourselves, craving a shiny new enchant. Lets face it dudes, until we're all selling title trips to sarth3d, we shouldnt be complaining how easy the content is:)

Personally, I's go with a damage enchant if they make one. I'm sick of mitigation + survivability. Tanking 3.0 is all about damage. I'm not being ironic. Too many tanks are stuck in the tanking middle ages. Blizzard keep on hinting that this is the direction tanking is moving into, including in this very thread about titan.

Shamad said...

Anon, which title are you talking about? Twilight Vanquisher? My guild can easily boost anyone to the title, in fact we've recruited a few new players and the very first time they try Sarth3D on 25man we've downed the boss in 1-3 tries. A friends guild actually did their very first Sarth3D kill with 24 people, not 25. There's easily room to sell titles/mounts if guilds feel like it.

10man is a bit harder since everyone really needs to contribute and you can't afford to lose anyone really. You'd have to teach the buyer how to survive and what to do, and that'll probably be too much hassle for the time being.

Kalon said...

Sir Nicholai - thanks for coming by. :) I agree - there really aren't any compelling enchants for Prot paladins especially. Potency is basically it, and it's very meh.

Marino - it's funny, because mongoose is druids. So I'm kinda digging it. Still, the old world mats are getting old.

Shamad - you got fed up with mongoose? Really? Yikes.

Anon1 - thanks for coming by. I think that blizzard overstated how every tank would require having 75 stamina. As I said more than a few times, it's certainly not the case that druids would want it a lot of the time. Folks like Ciderhelm claimed that it's all they'd take, but if BC taught us anything it's that avoidance is severely understated as a means to deal with progression content. Sure, no tank in their right mind would take threat over stamina or avoidance, but give tanks a reasonable stam/avoidance tradeoff, and I think that you'll see them take one or the other depending.

Furthermore, that argument doesn't hold water when looking at every other class. The caster classes have a best in slot enchant that you can assume they all have. So do the healers. The melee DPS have one as well. The only way they'll replace it is if they get something that is simply more - more spellpower, more AP. Why does this model work for balancing encounters but not for tanks? It's puzzling.

As to Sarth3D - I'm really disappointed. The lag last night basically made it unplayable, and we had to downgrade to 2D. I was really hoping to get the 3D before the patch, but I'm sure we'll get it next week. And there is a guild on my server that is selling 3D titles, so...yeah, I'd say the content is pretty well done at this point.

Peter said...

I have to laugh when top tier of guilds to tell the wow community how awesome they are and how the content is easy and finished and they need more etc etc... For all their skill, dedication and coordination, they're adding nothing back to the community. Just trying to make others feel unworthy.

You guys all know of course that most people playing the game have not even cleared naxx25. It would be nice if you kept these people in mind when you talk about "trivial content". But I've yet to see that happen, so I doubt it will.

Kalon said...

Peter, thanks for coming by. :)

I don't consider our guild a top tier guild by any means. We're pretty casual. We rarely kick people or don't bring people for performance reasons. We aren't focused on getting 25 people to 80 as fast as humanly possible. Etc, etc. We're basically a casual raiding group that has some very dedicated core members.

But at the same time, this blog has shown me that as far as the rest of the WoW world is concerned, we are an elite raiding guild. We're trying 3D, after all, and it's not been done by everyone. Heck, being in Naxx-25, much less having it on farm, makes us that way with respect to the rest of the WoW players out there.

I mean no disrespect to other players out there who are struggling through this content. I mean no ill-will, and it certainly is not my intent to make anyone feel unworthy. At the same time, I feel that I have enough experience to say whether or not raid content is difficult or easy, and it's certainly my perception that the current raid content is pretty easy. I'm happy it's easy, mind you; Blizzard needs to have an introduction to raiding that is actually accessible. But it makes it no less easy for us and for most raiding guilds I know of.

I can't really speak about those who haven't started raiding or have no interest in raiding. If you like, Peter, you can take all of my comments like so: assume that when I say 'this content is x' I am speaking of how it compares to prior content. T7 may not be easy for some people, but make no mistake - T7 is far easier content than appropriately geared content was in BC, at any point. If you take offense by that...well, I can't control your feelings.

Megalis said...

I actually like the concept of the Accuracy enchant as a tank. More hit/expertise means less parry-gibbing and missed initial swings on incoming mobs (which leads to dead healers/DPS).

If you don't really need the extra dodge/crit/armor from Mongoose - or you just want to be different - Accuracy is the best alternative in my opinion.

Shamad said...


What the top guilds bring to the community is all the guides, talentbuilds, theorycrafting, most of the high level crafters and mats you can buy from the AH...all that stuff that makes life for the casual player easier.

And guess who buys all that stuff you sell? Top guild people who are making stuff for raids, or alts, or whatever.

And btw, on my server out of 38 guilds listed on GuildOx, 1 has Immortal, 10 have cleared Sarth3D(25man), 24 have done Sarth with atleast one drake up and a full 30 guilds have cleared Naxxramas. Ok, we're not the typical server, we've got more good PVE guilds than the norm, but that's still a huge chunk of people who've cleared Naxx...

Peter said...

jsut checking back - dont be mean to casuals: