tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post8240331971992042824..comments2023-10-03T03:48:35.523-07:00Comments on ThinkTank: [Offtopic] Players > skill > gear?Kalonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-55875851770547328472009-05-04T01:16:00.000-07:002009-05-04T01:16:00.000-07:00This is a complicated subject. I can't say I agree...This is a complicated subject. I can't say I agree fully on any views presented on this subject but my own.<br /><br />I am in a guild that has already downed Heroic Ulduar (ranked 589 world on wowprogess currently; and let's just say we are very, very, crude. This is mainly due to the relatively younger age of the guild. 14-30ish. However, it often gets to the point of rudeness. We don't always get along. Yet we will still down the content quickly, and don't struggle. <br /><br />The majority of us get along, but there are a few bad eggs. But they don't throw us into disharmony. <br /><br />I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, I guess it's that as long as the players are good, and know the others are good as well; despite any differences that the players may have, the content will go down.DruidDensitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-76214513483240756722009-05-02T03:37:00.000-07:002009-05-02T03:37:00.000-07:00Since you asked for sharing of experiences, I'm go...Since you asked for sharing of experiences, I'm going to pen down some quick thoughts here :) <br /><br />On the whole I do agree with your conclusion. While my GM/RL, at least on the surface, always says that he brings people to raids based only on performance, to a certain extent performance is also an indication of attitude and dedication to making the most out of your character (i.e. skill and gear). <br /><br />We lost 2 players recently after some minor drama. One was generally accepted as a very skilled DPS warrior. However, he also gave unwanted advice yet took umbrage at the fact that we told him his rampant whirlwinds were killing him too much on trash (to the extent that the healers refused to heal him after a while) and also happily withdrew daily quotas of bank mats without contribution. (When reminded, he put in 5g.) <br /><br />The other was a very well-geared but mediocre healer who got upset after we had to sit her out for progression fights in the first 2 weeks, as she really believed she healed well. She'd also make snide remarks in the healer channel like "How's the wiping going?" when not invited. <br /><br />You can imagine our relief when they finally decided to go. (They came as a package too.)<br /><br />On the other hand, we have some folks who may not be as skilled as the warrior but have been with the guild since we started in 2006. They are unfailingly positive, always staying humorous and boosting morale even after some nights of horrible wipes and the officers themselves are feeling down, and are always willing to learn and do better. <br /><br />In the end I guess my point is, while the leadership is indeed important, your members do make up the real base of your guild and having a good strong relationship, based on trust, between the two will do more than having the right ilevels, in the long run.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08784520489846214864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-73650645543335074482009-05-01T22:36:00.000-07:002009-05-01T22:36:00.000-07:00Nice bit on the importance of good leadership and ...Nice bit on the importance of good leadership and a good attitude, however I think these are more the basic things for all guilds to cover. A guild with too much strife and bad leadership won't stand together and will disintegrate over time. It's the fundamental hurdle.<br /><br />Beyond this there's "raiding awareness", a key ability everyone has to have to tackle proper content such as Ulduar. Those who lack it need to be sorted into people who can learn, and people who can't. People who can't are more of a burden than it's worth, and you're better off running a 24man raid than a 25man with someone who's going to run thought the raid with eyebeams on him or the likes.<br /><br />After this each players individual skill with their class becomes an issue. Again, teach the ones with potential.<br /><br />Something better guilds tend to do is post-raid analysis in order to improve strategies and figure out who was actually doing how well on the encounter, what people were doing wrong, and what can be done to improve overall performance. Really fallen in love with WMO's realtime HPS feature for comparing healers f.ex., there's more to it than just a high overall DPS, when one raidhealer can pump out in excess of 20k HPS when needed and the other sit at half that, there's the reason you were looking for why you were struggling on Mimiron etc.<br /><br />And finally, guilds of a real top level, and this was sort of the reason I started to reply, don't need to bring the player. All their players are of the highest standard in terms of raid awareness and personal skill. Therefore, they bring the class, and they theorycraft their raid performance based on setups to a far greater extent than the rest of us. Don't believe me? Go read up on Ensidias work on Hodir hard mode, they crunched the numbers, tried stacking up to 8 mages at a time(using alts as well I presume) and when they came to the conclusion it was impossible to do, they found an innovative way of using available content to beat the encounter(Flower Power buff).Shamadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18412957246927291161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-65369748204234638082009-05-01T09:55:00.000-07:002009-05-01T09:55:00.000-07:00Very timely and accurate post.
I run in the Lefto...Very timely and accurate post.<br /><br />I run in the Leftovers community on Silver Hand, you may recall the Wowinsider articles on them last year. We have separate charters that can draw raiders from the overall pool of the community, so you can see content with many different groups.<br /><br />Aside from raw skill, I have noticed the variance in results across various charters even with minimal variance in gearsets. Stability among some key roles plays a part, but a positive, energetic raid leader with some focus and discipline is such a separator.<br /><br />Better dps and clear/kill times will come with repetitions and better gear, the mindset and demeanor is almost an innate thing.Jheussenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-79181710378001367332009-04-30T18:21:00.000-07:002009-04-30T18:21:00.000-07:00I agree with some people being "poisonous" to a ra...I agree with some people being "poisonous" to a raid. I was told to lead the raid a number of times, because otherwise we wouldn't have the numbers, due to no one finding raiding enjoyable under one person. He did then go on to fracture the guild in half, which landed me in my current 10 man raiding guild with my gf, which is pretty sweet. <br /><br />Everyone acknowledges when they have made the mistake. After beating our heads against mimiron phase four for two hours,everyone had made a mistake, and were willing to admit it.Looriihttp://guildinertia.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-21316759502781022252009-04-30T15:56:00.000-07:002009-04-30T15:56:00.000-07:00Just saw this. Thanks for an awesome post. I am hu...Just saw this. Thanks for an awesome post. I am humbled you took the time and I thank you deeply & sincerly. Now I owe you. If I could give you a piece of my phat lootz (heart of iron?) I would, just because you dont get as much raid time as I do, and because I was pretty desperate at the time I wrote that. Couldnt have asked for a fuller response. <br /><br />I'm not as desperate now. Eventually, I couldnt stand the suffocation, and moved to a better raiding guild on a better server. Promptly got "of the nightfall" - a first for me, and the guild. My gear was the same, my skills were the same, and no-one thought I was holding back our attempts. They needed a feral for that fight after having lost some players... one of the reasons they had an open tank spot. <br /><br />A couple of my good friends came with me, though I didnt ask them too. Its been rougher for them than for me; they dont respond to personal criticism as well. But that's a big reason why this guild is so much better. First thing I noticed that shocked & gratified me: they had identical gear, but a significantly higher clear time for naxx. That in itself was worth the $50 and the emotional turmoil. I'd read about guilds like that on blogs. Now I was in one!!! The guild has been blessed with great leaders, of course. <br /><br />I have off nights too; had a really humiliating one on iron council last night in fact. I wiped the raid within 20 secs three times in a row. I wanted to crawl into a a deep deep hole. Dont think I ever screwed up so badly since I hit 70, decided to try tanking, and pugged MagT! <br /><br />Anyway, thank you again for your article. I felt pretty alone for so long, just because people hardly ever discuss these issues, and I love reading blogs. We have these conversations in private with our friends. Public perceptions - even after really pathetic wipes - are often still about class, spec & gear. <br /><br />I always remind my two friends - when they get upset - that leading a raid or a guild is the hardest job in wow. I /bow and /bow again to all the great wow leaders out there.Kiluianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-54843489602403261052009-04-30T15:23:00.000-07:002009-04-30T15:23:00.000-07:00I've encountered this scenario quite a bit. I'm g...I've encountered this scenario quite a bit. I'm generally the raid leader for my guild (we're small, so we only do 10-mans), and I'm pretty much it. I have a wife and two young sons, so I have responsibilities outside of WoW. I've told guys that they can go ahead and run something without me- I don't mind.<br /><br />But it never happens. The times they've tried, they just can't keep it together. And I've realized it's because of three main things:<br /><br />1. Leaders have to be skilled and knowledgeable. You need to be able to lead by example. No one will follow you if you don't know what you're doing.<br /><br />2. Leaders have to be flexible. If something doesn't work a couple times, try something different - something that may not have been shown on that tankspot video you watched. Nothing is more frustrating than wiping 7 times in a row when you're doing the same thing over and over. Sometimes it's not even that your method is wrong, but people get stuck in a rut and can't figure it out. Just introducing a new method can be enough to get players over that mental block.<br /><br />3. Probably the most important, you have to be able to lead PEOPLE. You need to be able to manage those petty squabbles that always occur so that they don't escalate. You have to keep things loose while making sure people are paying attention. You have to find ways to motivate everyone towards the same goal. Some people make this easier than others, but there are always those players who you pray won't be having an "off night."<br /><br />Anyway, good post. I just wanted to share that from my experience. I enjoy the responsibility of leadership, but it's tough sometimes. The reward is worth it, though.Taranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10621378833811799287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-22300657340939729152009-04-30T14:20:00.000-07:002009-04-30T14:20:00.000-07:00I agree wholeheartedly. A grumpy raider (or leade...I agree wholeheartedly. A grumpy raider (or leader) can kill a night easily. "Poisonous" is really a great term to use to describe those players that are always complaining or venting about how the raid is doing. Everyone is guilty of being off their game some nights but those that are consistently negative bring the whole raid down.<br /><br />But, with all of that said, it's the job of the guild/raid leader(s) to keep that stuff in check and try to keep the balance of fun/success as high as possible. Downtime, wiping, and dumb mistakes aren't fun, but neither is being yelled at for your mistakes.<br /><br />The holy grail is being able to get the raid to have the right expectations set. We've recently been prioritizing getting our DPS to do better (sometimes with a little too much grumpy lecturing), but it looks to be paying off. The guild has taken it on as a challenge and our members expect themselves and each other to do better without requiring too much brow beating. There are still a couple people who aren't great at channeling those desires or criticisms in a useful way, but it's the leaders job to keep those guys in check.<br /><br />I dunno, I think I'm just saying what you said. So, again, I agree.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04402995770868315575noreply@blogger.com