tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post7825099597861395751..comments2023-10-03T03:48:35.523-07:00Comments on ThinkTank: [Druid] Druids are OP - the commentsKalonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-53232290105125662432008-12-24T11:49:00.000-08:002008-12-24T11:49:00.000-08:00No I dont work for Blizzard. I could. I have the q...No I dont work for Blizzard. I could. I have the qualifications. I think it would be a blast My speciality is math/algorithms/statistics - I'd be in a team who designed the classes & their combat algorithms, and who obviously, according to vocal members of the community, didnt have a clue how combat or classes worked. Hence my irony. <BR/><BR/>Even thought I play a feral as my main, I dislike discussions that suggest one class's superiority over another in pve. As GC said recently, it may be true in a theoretical space divorced from real game play. But I encourage my raid leaders to look at the real game that we all play every night, and make decisions on who to bring for each raid based upon reality, not theory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-50855663545458602492008-12-24T10:17:00.000-08:002008-12-24T10:17:00.000-08:00@anon:Assuming that you do in fact work for Blizza...@anon:<BR/><BR/>Assuming that you do in fact work for Blizzard I think you're almost right. While Swipe was pretty clearly the weakest AoE ability of the 4 tanks, it was good enough to get the job done on all current fights as long as the dps understood to be a little more careful when a druid was tanking. With the buff it's actually a little ridiculous now.<BR/><BR/>However, if the first boss in Ulduar is a Patchwerk/Brutallus type fight where the tanks take enormous amounts of damage and the fight is balanced around players having nearly full Naxx/Malygos gear, then I can only see druids being used. On such fights our avoidance disadvantage is negated since the healers never stop healing anyway, and our superior health and armor totals make us the only logical choice if tank death is a real concern.<BR/><BR/>This is an issue that I want to see fixed now instead of when the Icecrown patch hits and all of a sudden we get hit with the nerf bat a little too hard and are suddenly not viable to tank progression encounters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-59769754596172950512008-12-24T10:07:00.000-08:002008-12-24T10:07:00.000-08:00Ouch! Sorry warriors, you suck. Its official. I do...Ouch! Sorry warriors, you suck. Its official. <BR/><BR/>I do believe all tanking classes can tank all content, in all the tanking roles, as long as they are appropriately geared & skilled, and have good friends to back them up. <BR/><BR/>But that's because I work for the Blizzard tanking department, and they force-feed me this brainwashing nonsense every day. <BR/><BR/>Thank god there are still some people who are pretty nifty with a calculator out there. I'm sick of meeting all these harvard grads in the blizzard cafes... with their phds in computer science and mathematical simulation techniques they think they're the bomb. I wish they'd spend more time reading blog comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-53187668735654881542008-12-24T09:41:00.000-08:002008-12-24T09:41:00.000-08:00This post will be a wall of text. Sorry.Here is a...This post will be a wall of text. Sorry.<BR/><BR/>Here is a comparison of a warrior tank and a druid tank wearing nearly the best gear in the game and the stats that they'll have. Disclaimers (there are quite a few) will follow the numbers.<BR/><BR/>This imaginary warrior is wearing Last Laugh, Wall of Terror, Armor Plated Combat Shotgun, Nexus War Champion Beads, Cloak of the Shadowed Sun, Gatekeeper, Sand-worn Band, Kyzoc's Ground Stompers, Ablative Chitin Girdle, Bracers of the Unholy Knight, and full Valorous Dreadnaught Plate. The unbuffed stats for this set come out to:<BR/><BR/>Armor - 22041<BR/>Strength - 911<BR/>Stamina - 1388<BR/>Dodge Rating - 373<BR/>Defense Rating - 492<BR/>Parry Rating - 307<BR/>Block Rating - 133<BR/>Block Value - 298<BR/>Hit Rating - 142<BR/>Expertise Rating - 34<BR/>Sockets - 4 blue, 7 red, 1 meta<BR/><BR/><BR/>The druid is wearing Origin of Nightmares, Idol of Terror, Boundless Ambition, Cloak of the Shadowed Sun, Gatekeeper, Keystone Great-Ring, Footwraps of Vile Deceit, Stalk-skin Belt, Thrusting Bands, and full Valorous Dreamwalker Battlegear. The unbuffed stats for this set come out to:<BR/><BR/>Armor - 5804<BR/>Strength - 257<BR/>Agility - 649<BR/>Stamina - 1155<BR/>Dodge Rating - 128<BR/>Defense Rating - 71<BR/>Crit Rating - 334<BR/>Hit Rating - 64<BR/>Expertise Rating - 181<BR/>Haste Rating - 122<BR/>Armor Penetration Rating - 78<BR/>Attack Power (non-feral) - 1006<BR/>Sockets - 5 red, 3 yellow, 1 meta<BR/><BR/><BR/>Disclaimers: I know that T7 isn't necessarily best in every slot, but defaulting to it made generating this list much easier. In general I made guesses when it came to warrior gear, if I made a major mistake in some of their items let me know and I can recalculate the stats. Also, I added all of the values by hand so there may be calculation mistakes, feel free to point them out. For the remainder of this post I will ignore base stats because I could not find them, but they should have very little effect on the conclusions here.<BR/><BR/>The following numbers are the stats that the characters will have unbuffed but with appropriate talents and dire bear form multipliers added in. I will show a minimal amount of work on how I arrived at the diminished avoidance values, please double check my math there.<BR/><BR/>Warrior:<BR/><BR/>Strength - 966<BR/>Stamina - 1471<BR/>Armor - 24245<BR/>Dodge - 9.48 (dodge rating) + 4 (defense rating) = 13.48%, reduced to 12.155 + 8.464 (3.464 base + 5 anticipation) = 20.619%<BR/>Parry - 6.24 (parry rating) + 4 (defense rating) = 10.24%, reduced to 8.72 + 5 (deflection) = 13.72%<BR/>Block - 8.11 (block rating) + 5 (shield specialization) = 13.11%<BR/>Block value - 298 * 1.3 (shield mastery) + 911 / 2 = 843<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Druid:<BR/><BR/>Strength - 272<BR/>Agility - 688<BR/>Stamina - 1836<BR/>Armor - 31383<BR/>Dodge - 16.512 (agility) + 0.56 (defense rating) + 3.25 (dodge rating) = 20.325%, reduced to 17.74 + 14.95 (10 feral swiftness + natural reaction, 4.95 base) = 32.69%<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Conclusions: The druid will have 365 more stamina and 7138 more armor than the warrior. The warrior will have 1.65% more dodge+parry than the druid has dodge. You can probably add 3% more chance to be missed from defense for 4.65% more avoidance.<BR/><BR/>I specifically left out trinkets due to the fact that they tend to be switched around more than other pieces of gear since they're so specialized. The thing to note is that we scale better with both stamina and armor in the trinket slot than warriors do by a long shot, which will magnify the differences I just listed. Armor is the most obvious example: if both the druid and warrior then equipped Offering of Sacrifice and Defender's Code the druid's armor advantage would skyrocket to 12,976. We could do something similar with stamina and equip both with Essence of Gossamer, which gives the druid a 430 stamina advantage.<BR/><BR/>These differences will only grow when things like enchants, gems, and buffs are taken into consideration since we scale faster with stamina and agility. Further considering that this hypothetical warrior is not yet crit immune and must waste some gems/enchants on defense rating and the gap grows again.<BR/><BR/>Note that block does make up for this to an extent. Unfortunately we don't have any similar abilities with which to compare the two. If we limit ourselves to main tanking boss fights where hits are large but slow, which is where I argue that druids are overpowered, it's generally accepted that armor is superior to block. When you consider that we can stack nearly 13k more armor than warriors for such fights I can't see how anyone would think we are on equal footing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-35830913958616458982008-12-24T01:24:00.000-08:002008-12-24T01:24:00.000-08:00Whilst i agree with the majority of points in your...Whilst i agree with the majority of points in your generally great blog, i think it's really important to look at other tanks when making these comparisons. im not talking about all other tanks, just ones of a similar SKILL level. i think that is something that seems overlooked by many. <BR/><BR/>It's ok saying that we are OP in terms of what we can get from our gear choices etc. etc. but you still need to be a decent tank to make these kind of claims. i know of alot of tanks (of every class) that are struggling atm in heroics and raids. the basic reason is they arent good enough (yet) to cope.<BR/><BR/>i also know of some really excellent tanks who can rival druids in any instance, if they have the skill.<BR/><BR/>as far as aoe packs go i personally cant see any issue there atm, i just take the maul/swipe spam as read and dont really think its anything to complain about. i seem to hold aggro fine with that method, and though its maybe not the most interesting thing to do for a tank, i dont think its broken at all. <BR/><BR/>druids just hold on to what weve got atm i reckon, cos things will be changing. and i dont necessarily think they will change the way we work at all, it will most likely be the same situation as we have previously been used to whereby as soon as new content is introduced we look down the loot tables and think 'hmmm.... no bear loot there then'. other tanks will catch and surpass us as they pick up plate epics aplenty and thier stats grow and grow while ours remain somewhat stagnant and we all go chasing after arena sets.<BR/><BR/>(just my opinion :p)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-24494625049441298172008-12-23T19:18:00.000-08:002008-12-23T19:18:00.000-08:00@ Kiluia and others.All blanket statements are wro...@ Kiluia and others.<BR/><BR/>All blanket statements are wrong; except for this one:<BR/><BR/>Player (skill/attitude) > Gear.<BR/><BR/>This holds true now and will continue to hold true given Blizzard's attitude towards designing encounters and balancing classes.<BR/><BR/>Druids are not broken. Some players who play druids are definetly broken as are some players who play healing and dps clases. <BR/><BR/>Granted, we pass judgements on our chosen carachter class based on our personal experiences with that class. However, unless a warrior tanks through an encounter whilst a druid gets hit so hard his head falls off lets keep in mind that we are different classes. <BR/><BR/>The other 4/9/24 people in your group will contribute infinetly more to the success or failure of an encounter then your gear ever will. This is evidenced in my personal experiences and by the fact (correct me if i'm wrong) that world-first Naxx clear was done by people wearing blues/greens.<BR/><BR/>TLDR: attitude and skill >> gear/lack of shield.<BR/><BR/>Challenge: finding those players on your server.<BR/><BR/>Annon1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-69733023114772025422008-12-23T16:05:00.000-08:002008-12-23T16:05:00.000-08:00I guess we'll just have to wait and see how all of...I guess we'll just have to wait and see how all of this works out. I'm sure blizzard has their eyes on us. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do simply because it will <I>hopefully</I> change how I have to think about tanking. The 3.0 changes just let me forget about defense, and even with the 3.0.8, it will just make me think less about the few armor drops. I guess I just want more to think about as a tank.Phil Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16617169205395145946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-16488359802442562952008-12-23T14:47:00.000-08:002008-12-23T14:47:00.000-08:00As I promised, a new blog(and reply to your post) ...As I promised, a new blog(and reply to your post) is up at http://lazybearmusings.blogspot.comShamadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18412957246927291161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-75683744084771839062008-12-23T13:51:00.000-08:002008-12-23T13:51:00.000-08:00No, Mr. Anonymous, I’m not seeing what you mean.I'...No, Mr. Anonymous, I’m not seeing what you mean.<BR/><BR/>I've lead raids, and I've been an officer in a guild that was raiding (only T4 content at the time, but still).<BR/><BR/>I've always thought of myself as a decent player. Not the best by a long stretch, for I know people that are better. But as far as LEADING a raid through anywhere, I would have to say that I’m not comfortable leading it until I’ve been through it enough times to know what to expect.<BR/><BR/>I guess my small beef is that when I start feeling good about my toon, and my skills I dislike reading how druids are the gods of the game and any druid can tank naxx with their eyes closed. Because I certainly can not. But then I wonder if maybe Kalon is actually correct, because I’ve stumbled through heroics where I had never even done the regular instance, and I tanked like a beast. I guess I’m just lost and confused, and take heart that maybe if I follow his gear list and keep on working I can someday be a super bear god too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-22846588386339568192008-12-23T13:20:00.000-08:002008-12-23T13:20:00.000-08:00You see what I mean Copey?! Surely somewhere in al...You see what I mean Copey?! Surely somewhere in all the confusion: runs that go awesomsly with all the wrong gear, vs. runs that go badly with all the right gear... even in the back of your mind... even with all the "thou shall not judge thy fellow player" conditioning... dont you just wonder... if... perhaps...just maybe... you're a better player than the other tanks, and you could run a much more successful raid around naxx...? <BR/><BR/>That's what I'm starting to believe, personally. I just cant explain it any other way. My fellow tanks are great people! I love em to bits. But maybe they're just not that good at leading raids...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-70771995047833516852008-12-23T12:51:00.000-08:002008-12-23T12:51:00.000-08:00There was a :) after that last comment about frien...There was a :) after that last comment about friends to not my sarcasm, but apperently my Word ate it before I copy pasted it.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'm a big fan, I have just started to feel like I need to put on my protective shell when I read your posts like this so I don't feel bad about my druid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-63489949093087188242008-12-23T12:44:00.000-08:002008-12-23T12:44:00.000-08:00I have posted before how I didn’t think that your ...I have posted before how I didn’t think that your perspective was in line with the majority of druids out there. I’ve always tried to be civil about pointing it out, and then you came out with this post. I kind of got a little riled and wanted to start a lvl 1 character on your server just so I could come and bow down to your awesome gear and then tell you to take a hike with your attitude about druids.<BR/><BR/>Then I saw the flames in the comments, and decided not to pile on. I will share an experience with you. I went in to Naxx for the first time on Sunday, as DPS in cat form. My gear is getting really good (thanks in large part to your suggestions), but we have another Druid that has better gear than me, and he is one of the main tanks of the guild. I was just happy to get a slot in the raid. As we wiped time after time on “the dance”, I was thinking “I could be tanking this”. Then the next boss, and neither the druid or pally tanks were good enough. Nor our raid. So we went to Patchwerk. Same thing. After I would say 5 hours and probably 20 wipes, we called it.<BR/><BR/>The leather bracers dropped off Hiegan, and I deferred my roll to the only other feral druid, the guy tanking. He insisted I take them, as they were only a small upgrade for him and because I did so well. Moral of the story: I see this as normal. I see us as a guild (over a year old guild by the way) learning the raid. This is what I’m here for. To listen to 10 guys talk about it, and to here the raid leader shout out “Everybody to zone ONE NOW!!” and then hear the laughs as he is the only one that doesn’t make it. It’s fun. It’s challenging. And I don’t feel as over powered as you do. Back of my mind I was thinking “Do me and my big brother bear here just suck compared to Kalon? This isn’t easy at all.”<BR/><BR/>Next day I get a group together, and run the daily Heroic, VH. I always log out in tank gear, so I never checked. End of the instance, we got the achievement for not letting any mobs through, and that’s when I noticed I tanked it in my DPS cat gear. Which is why my trinkets didn’t seem to help much when I popped them. Sure my trinkets and rings are most of the gear that gets changed out between bear and cat, but still. I was not maximized to my full potential, but still got the job done easily.<BR/><BR/>Then, after that run I went with friends and DPS’d heroic DK. The tank wanted the ring. I did too, but told him I would pass on it if it dropped because he is a good guy. We blow through the instance, and at the last boss, the warrior tank dies. QUICKLY. I pop over (still in cat gear) and I tank that easily. He is in good gear, and I was minus 600 base armor from my rings and minus my dodge trinket. Then, we proceeded to 4 man it. <BR/><BR/>End of the day sir, I respect your knowledge of the game. I enjoy your writing. But sometimes when you talk about the cake walk that the game is for all druids I start to wonder if I just do not possess the skill set for it. Maybe Druids are OP, and I’m just a bad player. That’s what posts like that make me think. Then I do awesome in two heroics in a row, where I didn’t even have the proper gear on, and I really start to get confused. Because my gear level seems like I shouldn’t cake walk though heroics, but most of the time I do. Yet I and my guild mate who has better gear struggles in Naxx 10. To me, I feel like once you start farming heroics you should be still challenged in the raids. And that is the way it is for me and my group of friends. So I go back to feeling like “where does Kalon get off telling us how bullshit OP druids are?” <BR/><BR/>Thanks for taking the time to read all the posts. You are a cool guy, even if you are too powerful to be anybody’s friend <BR/><BR/>Also, where do people get off posting anonymously?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-76557736713675079682008-12-23T12:40:00.000-08:002008-12-23T12:40:00.000-08:00Thanks for a great writeup of a great set of comme...Thanks for a great writeup of a great set of comments from a great post! <BR/><BR/>I loved the spirit of your piece - it was clear you were having a good time, and having fun with the post, and your friends in game. <BR/><BR/>One thing I would love to see even more than math and hard facts. Whats the role of the player in the game? <BR/><BR/>Recently, our guild struggled to complete the last 2 bosses in 10-man naxx for the first time. Many many wipes on each, then the kill. Well, last night I was able to lead my own raid. So I hand picked a bunch of people I trusted, and we one-shotted these 2 bosses, to our own amazement & joy. Most of us, myself included, had never seen those bosses. I was well prepared and suprememly confident we'd succeed. Some felt burned from the guild's previous experiences... Then we tried eye of eternity: same experience of prior burn. People were saying "its really hard, we're gonna wipe a lot" Didnt really want to try it. Again, I put out the same attitude. We did 60% on our very first attempt. (previously they managed 95% after many wipes)<BR/><BR/>So our gear was very similar to the other group's. The only real difference was that I hand picked people I trusted, and I did everything I could to inspire them. And everyone player played really well. In an evening, the guild's perception of naxx & malygos flipped right over. <BR/><BR/>Those uber-guilds that steamroll content in a couple of days? No one ever discusses their experiences. Clearly, its not about their gear, nor their specs, or whether their classes are broken or not. It HAS to be about the players. They blatantly have no interest in the issues the rest of us noobs spend long lunch-hours discussing. <BR/><BR/>So tell me more about your experiences of how important the players are. The players who are broken. The players who are OP. The players who learn an encounter as it unfolds for the very first time. The players who cant follow a simple direction no matter how big the deadly boss mods letters are flashing. How do you choose who to bring to a raid based upon the players, assuming you have the luxury to do so? For example, I didnt invite our top guild DPSer, even though he's top every time, better geared than most, and he knows all the content much better from a previous guild. Why? Because he's an arrogant fool who creates a chaotic, fragmented vibe every time he speaks. <BR/><BR/>Please please please! I'm convinced these issues are the core of success in wow. Tell us more about them from your own experiences. Change names to protect the (not very) innocent! It's the core of the game; we all know it, but we never discuss it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-27329024101256305732008-12-23T11:52:00.000-08:002008-12-23T11:52:00.000-08:00I'm going to take the time to expand a bit on my v...I'm going to take the time to expand a bit on my view I think, as my take on this is one that I suppose is rather rare still, but rather than clutter up your blog completely I'm considering starting one of my own and hoping that this time(I had a previous one about politics and the likes(http://jazzandpolitics.blogspot.com)) I'll have the tenacity to stick to it. I'm depending on the ever changing nature of the game to keep me wanting to post.<BR/><BR/>I'll post a link as I get my in-depth first post and reply to your post ready, luckily boredom and christmas are great to get me doing stuff I'm otherwise too lazy to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-45394385640871823622008-12-23T11:29:00.000-08:002008-12-23T11:29:00.000-08:00My personal view on bear tanking: I don't have def...My personal view on bear tanking: I don't have defender's code, but I do have the emblem trinket, the naxx 10 tanking staff, a naxx 10 amulet, and then the rest are an assortment of 80 epics enchanted/gemmed for DPS (hit/strength), a couple eviscerator's pieces, the blue OP quest gloves, and i even have the badge of tenacity still /facepalm<BR/><BR/>That said, I am able to tank heroics fine WITHOUT key tanking talents. Should ANY class be able to do this? I don't have the 6% dodge from natural reaction, I don't have the bonus armor from thick hide, and I don't have the 12% damage reduction from PotP!<BR/><BR/>Should a naxx-10 geared tank be able to do heroics without those key talents? . . . I don't know, but I can do it. I also have pro healers (like a shaman healer that actually interrupts mob's spell castings). Either way, the people that can't get certain armor trinkets/amulets/rings will be getting a HUGE buff whenever the patch comes out so I'm not sure I understand where the animosity is coming from. Just give it time and you'll have a boatload of armor tossed in your lap. Just focus on agility/dodge/stam ::yawn::<BR/><BR/>I would post what I tank in, but at the moment I am logged out in my pvp gear so that would do no good (I rarely log out in tanking gear).<BR/><BR/>tldr: IMO bears are fine right now and most will be better after the next patch.Mitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07319274326354800966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-75166433235177012692008-12-23T11:20:00.000-08:002008-12-23T11:20:00.000-08:00@Kalon:I didn't chime in yesterday because I wrote...@Kalon:<BR/><BR/>I didn't chime in yesterday because I wrote a novel of my own. I'll take a few seconds now though.<BR/><BR/>My personal opinion is that I feel that you're over-stating both the weakness of bears in heroics and their strength in the top raids. I've done just fine in both, and the DPS I run with gives me the breathing room to build aggro on trash pulls. (Note to everyone: If yours don't, then they suck - plain and simple.) While some tweaking here and there might be called for, overall the class "feels" right to me at the moment. Of course, my preferred role is a mish-mash of tanking and dps, preferably both in the same fight..... all of the new DPS mechanics for kitties are HARD to get correct, and that's a load of fun. Bear tanking is the same as TBC, but with a few extra buttons to press. (Again, this is all opinion, not gospel.)<BR/><BR/>ANYWAYS, the important thing I want to say is: this is your blog - write what interests you, and don't let a bunch of commenters convince you otherwise. If you don't want to be all-math-all-the-time, then please don't force yourself to do that. Your writing is eloquent enough that I'd probably keep reading if you started hardcore blogging about the latest developments in Hello Kitty Online... so just do what you feel like. (After all, this is a HOBBY, not a job.)Karthishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12743302053128863699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-51336013081173437112008-12-23T11:03:00.000-08:002008-12-23T11:03:00.000-08:00Since I feel that didn't phrase that properly, wha...Since I feel that didn't phrase that properly, what I'm saying is there are a larger number of us (as druid tanks) who are having major problems right now, due to real restrictions and imagined, getting spots as tanks than the very tiny number of you who have had good drops and solid guild support. <BR/><BR/>And, not all of us want to be furry rogues. I did the cat thing through vanilla wow because Druids weren't allowed to tank. But now, I want to be a tank. If I want to DPS, I'll play a warlock. Boring class for a boring function.teflaimehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12858992182120624497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-31560691532971084892008-12-23T10:46:00.000-08:002008-12-23T10:46:00.000-08:00Dude,It's not that I object to fluff...it's that t...Dude,<BR/><BR/>It's not that I object to fluff...it's that that last peice makes it seem like we should all be owning every other tank in the game no matter our gear...<BR/><BR/>And I'm still not convinced that druids will have a place in end game with our incredibly poor scaling and the very serious lack of mitigation we will have compared to Warriors and Paladins...<BR/><BR/>Earthen Ring might be odd in that Paladins have long been the raid tank of choice on this server, but what I'm seeing on our server is just an exacerbation of that tendency. Pallies are very very good and they are getting better. Druids are okay and they will be getting worse...teflaimehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12858992182120624497noreply@blogger.com