tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post4039342821567394187..comments2023-10-03T03:48:35.523-07:00Comments on ThinkTank: [Druid] Bear item list and rep list for pre-naxx (UPDATED)Kalonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-6382566306180799432009-01-26T08:50:00.000-08:002009-01-26T08:50:00.000-08:00Hey, Adam - thanks for coming by. :)Updating the p...Hey, Adam - thanks for coming by. :)<BR/><BR/>Updating the pre and post-naxx lists is one of my todo list items. The short answer is that not a lot changes in terms of the best (enraged Feral staff is still top of the list) but Staff of Trickery becomes much more usable and Titansteel Destroyer becomes an option, though it's not a great one. <BR/><BR/>And amusingly enough, so does the Kalu'ak mastercraft fishing pole. <BR/><BR/>I'll try and get something together for this post later this week. Thanks!Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-12060774464893660932009-01-25T06:24:00.000-08:002009-01-25T06:24:00.000-08:00I know patch 3.0.8 just came out, so this is proba...I know patch 3.0.8 just came out, so this is probably asking a bit soon, but I'm assuming you'll get to redo the weapons section due to druids ability to now use polearms and various other weapons having attack power added for druids. I'm kinda hoping this doesn't change much for me but at the same time, I think it'll open up a lot more for druids to use. Thanks!Hiattechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16442666948845763312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-66992929645575266572009-01-07T04:37:00.000-08:002009-01-07T04:37:00.000-08:00This is exactly what ive been looking for about an...This is exactly what ive been looking for about an eternity :) Great job!!!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02721167916366006454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-3635352599186508762009-01-05T09:37:00.000-08:002009-01-05T09:37:00.000-08:00Anon and kelondra - thanks for coming by. Sorry I ...Anon and kelondra - thanks for coming by. Sorry I hadn't updated this in a while. The flowing cloak should be correct now. <BR/><BR/>Adam - that's a good question. I've mentioned gemming and enchanting in other places and what you should sort of aim for, and Karthis put up a great guide for <A HREF="http://teethandclaws.blogspot.com/2008/12/feral-enchantments.html" REL="nofollow">enchantments</A>. Still, I should do one for completeness. To answer you quickly - go for agility when you can or the socket bonus isn't good. Go for stamina, defense, dodge and expertise when you must meet the socket bonus or can't afford the agility. If you're going for a stam set, just gem stam.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-56959776019776876112009-01-03T17:10:00.000-08:002009-01-03T17:10:00.000-08:00hey, i love the listing of gear and i've picked up...hey, i love the listing of gear and i've picked up a lot of it. my question now is, what are some of the best gems to pick (i don't really have any socketed gear yet, but i figure i'll start gathering) and chants for each of these slots? do you have a link to another site that you use?Hiattechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16442666948845763312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-89435808959099715952008-12-13T05:37:00.000-08:002008-12-13T05:37:00.000-08:00thanks for the awesome list. i've been working my ...thanks for the awesome list. <BR/>i've been working my way through and really feel the improvement of my character. good thing to know you're set when you reach a top item for a slot. <BR/><BR/>one addition:<BR/>Flowing Cloak of Command - 35.61. Heroic CoT Strat<BR/><BR/>this cloak drops not in heroic strat, but normal. <BR/><BR/>i guess that (and the fact that it's fast and easy) makes strat one of the first targets, top shelf gloves and cloak for beartanks - and not even herioic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-72259657513622425892008-12-10T21:42:00.000-08:002008-12-10T21:42:00.000-08:00Great list, it's really helped me out a lot. Just ...Great list, it's really helped me out a lot. Just wanted to point out that the flowing cloak of command drops in normal mode - don't know if anyone has pointed that out yet. Thanks for the helpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-22925643445440648152008-12-08T21:08:00.000-08:002008-12-08T21:08:00.000-08:00Eurybia - thanks. :) The main reason you'd want to...Eurybia - thanks. :) The main reason you'd want to use defense is because it provides dodge and miss. It isn't as good as dodge rating or agility, but it still is good. Don't stack it, but don't look at defense as useless. There's no cap to look for. <BR/><BR/>Beable - thanks as well. And yes, looking for more stamina is a good idea before Naxx. When you're fairly well geared in heroic gear and craftables you can move on from that and work for more avoidance. <BR/><BR/>Cdin - thanks. :) I had thought I had put on the Violet Hold staff, but it turns out that without the armor it just isn't worth it. When the 3.0.4 changes come out it's still not worth it compared to the Enraged Feral Staff, but the comparison is much closer. I still wouldn't recommend it for bears over Enraged, though it's a good threat staff. Amusingly enough in 3.0.4 the epic fishing pole from Kalu'ak will have exactly the same DPS value as the Staff of Trickery. (it won't be as good since it'll be missing agility, strength and stam, but it'll have the same FAP).<BR/><BR/>Anon - sorry, I had saved prematurely and wrongly for the naxx list. It should be mostly correct now. Thanks for bringing that up!Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-73991938405789228172008-12-07T11:36:00.000-08:002008-12-07T11:36:00.000-08:00Great list, but the Chest and Head lists seem odd ...Great list, but the Chest and Head lists seem odd as "Pre-naxx" lists, being full of Naxx and Malygos drops.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-45263697413276293532008-12-03T08:55:00.000-08:002008-12-03T08:55:00.000-08:00Ditto to Cdin. Staff of Trickery (http://www.wowhe...Ditto to Cdin. <BR/>Staff of Trickery (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37883 ) drops off of Cyanigosa in Heroic Violet Hold. It lacks armor, but with upcoming feral armor changes, I think this won't be too big a deal. :) <BR/><BR/>Great list, btw! Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-24663504839959021722008-12-02T13:31:00.000-08:002008-12-02T13:31:00.000-08:00You may have listed this somewhere and I missed it...You may have listed this somewhere and I missed it, but you probably want to include the Staff of Trickery in your weapon list.<BR/><BR/>It drops in Heroic VH and is fairly easy to get.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-75212729578503484192008-12-02T07:53:00.000-08:002008-12-02T07:53:00.000-08:00Love your list, great work. I'm working against i...Love your list, great work. I'm working against it for my bear.<BR/><BR/>I'm using the Legguards of Swarming Attacks for my bear set, and the Mind-Expanding for cat. I like the extra stamina. I know that druids who had a lot of raid gear from BC don't have the stamina problems I do, but I think working toward 30k hps in bear is a good idea. And I'm not quite there yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-61264873337777841602008-12-02T06:43:00.000-08:002008-12-02T06:43:00.000-08:00Fantastic article here, bookmarked, and I'll be vi...Fantastic article here, bookmarked, and I'll be visiting frequently! Thanks for this :)<BR/><BR/>I have a question tho about Defense Rating. It was my understanding after a guildie did some research that druids are naturally uncrittable with 3 pts into SotF. If this is the case, is it necessary at all to let Defense Rating on gear to have much weight when choosing one piece over the other, or is Defense Rating still a significant stat? Is there a cap that we should aim for?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-45776984821078352262008-11-29T16:45:00.000-08:002008-11-29T16:45:00.000-08:00One addition for your legs list: Chain Gang Leggua...One addition for your legs list: <A HREF="http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37890" REL="nofollow">Chain Gang Legguards</A>, a BoE world drop that is selling on my realm for about 100g. The +117 stamina puts them very high, somewhere around #4 on your list I think. --FlyvAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-61533068373946276252008-11-28T13:35:00.000-08:002008-11-28T13:35:00.000-08:00Gah! Gored Hide Legguards are from Heroic Gundrak....Gah! Gored Hide Legguards are from Heroic Gundrak. Sigh. Sorry about that.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-9774544015730167552008-11-28T08:49:00.000-08:002008-11-28T08:49:00.000-08:00Gored Hide Leggins do not seem to be from Argent C...Gored Hide Leggins do not seem to be from Argent Crusade. Was just at the vendor and he does only sell some epic leather boots at exalted. <BR/><BR/>A real shame, they would have been a much nicer reward than the boots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-76928475772677843122008-11-28T01:45:00.000-08:002008-11-28T01:45:00.000-08:00Not that it really matters right now, seeing we ca...Not that it really matters right now, seeing we can't even learn the engi goggles at this point. <BR/><BR/>But they were only BoE for the beta. They got changed to BoP like the old ones for Wotlk release.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-81977207984589260342008-11-26T11:14:00.000-08:002008-11-26T11:14:00.000-08:00From my own toon sheet it takes about 40 dodge = 1...<I>From my own toon sheet it takes about 40 dodge = 1 % of dodge but 132 defence to = 1% of defence which is consistant with what I know.</I> Yep, that's all correct - well, there's no such think as 1% of defense, but it's fine. It takes 4.9 defense rating to give .04% dodge, parry, miss and block. 132 defense rating would give 1% dodge - but it would also give 1% miss. So that 132 defense rating would give 2% total avoidance. Compare to 132 dodge, which would give 3.1% avoidance, and you can see how defense rating gives about 2/3rds value.<BR/><BR/>But that is before diminishing returns. The miss % diminishes far slower at the defense values that druids pack relative to dodge, so it makes each point of defense rating better in terms of giving overall avoidance. At 30% dodge rate you lose about 1.5% dodge to diminishing returns - but miss loses nothing with the same gear.<BR/><BR/>This is illustrated with Rawr as well - in Rawr, dodge rating for my character is valued at 26.7, but defense is valued at 19.6 - and that's in my current gear. In Naxx gear defense increases in value. <BR/><BR/>You're probably right though - defense is likely too high. The ratio currently from this that I use is 1.18 to 1; it probably should be closer to 1.3 to 1. That doesn't, in practice, really change all that much though, as you won't really be competing for things with defense vs. things with dodge.<BR/><BR/>Expertise has value here because it can act as a form of mitigation. It isn't hugely valuable for mitigation (about a third as useful as dodge) but it still can reduce parry haste, and that makes it useful. I've talked about that quite a bit elsewhere in my blog, so I'll not bring it up more again. :)<BR/><BR/><I><BR/><BR/>If you want me to go away and shutup I will just making a few notes I hope your not offended :D</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not offended at all. :) I don't mind corrections that are valid and criticisms that are reasonable and reasonably thought out. I don't guarantee that I'll change my mind on my statements, but I will listen. I think reasonable people can disagree on things and discuss it reasonably.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-16206920555065272722008-11-26T10:49:00.000-08:002008-11-26T10:49:00.000-08:00From my own toon sheet it takes about 40 dodge = 1...From my own toon sheet it takes about 40 dodge = 1 % of dodge but 132 defence to = 1% of defence which is consistant with what I know. At DR (about 50% dosge) defence is ok but for gearing up no which was the argument you made for hit. Yet you gave defence a 50 rating, expertise 22 and hit 0 and dodge just a 59. As you pointed out the resist set has no threat or avoidance stats on it but by simply using the numbers from wowhead its comes in #2 for boots and #1 for belt. We both know thats not true which is why I also feel stam is overvalued.<BR/><BR/>If you want me to go away and shutup I will just making a few notes I hope your not offended :D<BR/><BR/>TygAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-60734412880472351952008-11-26T10:36:00.000-08:002008-11-26T10:36:00.000-08:00Lets just say we agree to disagree. I feel experti...<I>Lets just say we agree to disagree. I feel expertise is worth more than you are giving it .. more like 40. Hit should be more around 20 or so. <B>Defence should be removed since it is more or less useless now until you hit 50% dodge.</B></I><BR/><BR/>While I'm fine with the rest of the statement, I can't let the 'defense is useless meme' stick around. Defense is not useless at all; the avoidance it provides without considering diminishing returns is 2/3rds as much per point as dodge rating is. When you factor in DR, it gets much closer to dodge or agility. I don't recommend stacking it or anything like that, but it certainly is worth being on gear.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-7203469696908468272008-11-26T10:31:00.000-08:002008-11-26T10:31:00.000-08:00Lets just say we agree to disagree. I feel experti...Lets just say we agree to disagree. I feel expertise is worth more than you are giving it .. more like 40. Hit should be more around 20 or so. Defence should be removed since it is more or less useless now until you hit 50% dodge. I also do feel you overweight stam. To each their own Im just giving my opinion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-69826253180074735182008-11-26T10:13:00.000-08:002008-11-26T10:13:00.000-08:00Tygrathel -I mean if you just look at the point sy...Tygrathel -<BR/><BR/><I>I mean if you just look at the point system there the resist pieces are just about best in slot period and I think we can all agree just by looking at them that they are not.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, the polar gear is not the best in slot; no threat stats and no agility is pretty poor. At the same time I could easily argue to use them as a set of starting gear simply because of the enormous stam, which would allow agility elsewhere. I really should write about that...<BR/><BR/>Again, it really comes down to whether or not you believe threat to be valuable and how valuable it is. As an example - if you do what you suggest and make hit half as valuable as expertise, the gored hide leggings do trump the ravenous leggings of the furbolg - but only 68.96 to 68.10. And then you could argue that the crit on the ravenous leggings brings them back into par with the Gored Hide leggings. And then you argue that the AP on the Gored Hide brings them right back up. You could then argue that expertise and hit should both be bumped, and that's reasonable - but I don't think that it's representative of what most bears are going to be looking for or wanting.<BR/><BR/>As to taunt resists - if a taunt resist means a wipe the solution isn't to get more +hit; the solution is to get the <A HREF="http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40899" REL="nofollow">Glyph of Growl</A>, as I said earlier.<BR/><BR/>And on DPSers coming close early on? I've never seen that happen with berserk. Unless a DPSer doesn't allow me to get a hit in, I can easily put up a huge threat lead. 10 mangles at the beginning of the fight tend to effectively wipe out any issue with threat. If that's not your experience, that's cool - and who knows, I may find it a problem. I do know that in fights where you must land one hit on a mob on your first try (the M'uru adds are a good example of this) stacking hit and expertise was necessary - but that wasn't the general case.<BR/><BR/>I would like to say that while I disagree with you, I really do appreciate your comments and I understand where you're coming from. I like this kind of discourse and I hope that you do as well. Thanks!Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-70221320036001170122008-11-26T09:59:00.000-08:002008-11-26T09:59:00.000-08:00Mmhmm .. I OT patchwerk NP last weekend. I dont di...Mmhmm .. I OT patchwerk NP last weekend. I dont disagree expertise is important but so is hit. I just dont agree that hit has 0 value which is whats assigned. If you ran it about the same weight as expertise or even 1/2 both items I showed would be much higher. They really are just about best in slot until Naxx 25. I mean if you just look at the point system there the resist pieces are just about best in slot period and I think we can all agree just by looking at them that they are not. <BR/><BR/>Im also not sure what dpsers you run with but I tell you in the inital agro building stages they come close, In pure dps races they can come close and in fights where taunt is important .. 4 horsemen, Gluth, the slime guy in gundrak a missed taunt can = wipe.<BR/><BR/>Food for though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-75762789608089102092008-11-26T09:53:00.000-08:002008-11-26T09:53:00.000-08:00Hey, Tygrathel - That's absolutely true - I don't ...Hey, Tygrathel - <BR/><BR/>That's absolutely true - I don't value hit at all right now. The main reason I don't value hit is because expertise is simply better in all ways until you are expertise-capped than hit is - except for taunting. Even when dodge-capped, expertise still does better since it negates parries - and even if the boss does not parry haste, expertise is equivalent to hit. And thanks to the glyph of growl, you don't even need to worry about the taunt part.<BR/><BR/>Since the gear selected does not put you expertise-capped, I don't really value hit that much. And with all that expertise threat really isn't an issue. I'm currently 78 and easily doing more threat than level 80 Naxx-geared DPSers in instances. I realize that they'll be getting buffs to their damage output - but so will I, so it should be pretty similar. <BR/><BR/>That's all easy to say without having the experience though, so if I find that a lack of hit is really causing massive issues in threat when I run Naxx 25 with this guide, I'll revise it. <BR/><BR/>As to agility and stamina - I absolutely 100% agree. However, for pre-Naxx you want a lot of stamina. When you get Naxx-level gear you can start skimping on the stam a bit since it's basically everywhere, but early on I think you really want that buffer. Patchwerk's hatefuls hit for 20-23k on non-Naxx geared ferals, and they're doing the best of mitigating it. That's the benchmark that this is looking to hit. <BR/><BR/>This is ultimately the failing of any equipment guide, no matter what; at some point you want to have a balanced set of stats, especially for tanking. I mean, expertise is great until you parry cap, and then it's worthless - but how do you rank that reasonably? Same with hit, same with stam even - once you get to about 35k, you don't really need more stam - but until you do you still want that much. <BR/><BR/>I'm glad this discussion is coming up though. It's important when picking stats to be intelligent about it and not sacrifice too much for one thing over another. Personally, I would value crit over hit when tanking due to how rage regeneration and imp Leader of the Pack work, but I can see an argument for both - and you likely shouldn't sacrifice 50 hit for 10 stam. It really depends on what you want to do, but be smart about it; no gear list or guide on the planet will be able to figure out exactly what your dps, healers, or other people are like. At best it'll give you a good estimate on where to be. <BR/><BR/>Thanks again. :)Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-74673202399768176582008-11-26T09:42:00.000-08:002008-11-26T09:42:00.000-08:00I see why you did that. You gave 0 value to hit. H...I see why you did that. You gave 0 value to hit. Hit is still important for a feral tank so you dont miss for building threat in naxx or a heroic. With good dps they will still come close to you. Take a peek at the items giving even a even value to expertise to hit and your ratings will change. Both the above items I linked have tons of hit on them. Ples just stacking stam as a druid right now isn't best. You will want to use AGI gems where ever you can. The way you have the ratings setup assumes you will use nothing but 24 stam gems. Dodge is still very important until you start to bump the DR window at about 50%Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com