tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post4023645662048917055..comments2023-10-03T03:48:35.523-07:00Comments on ThinkTank: [Druid] How are bears doing?Kalonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-5077491111233947432009-09-22T10:07:55.935-07:002009-09-22T10:07:55.935-07:00I think this should come from firm distinction, wh...<i>I think this should come from firm distinction, what would paladin/warrior/bear be good and bad at, thus making classes different in essence of gameplay and gaming style, but equal overall.</i><br /><br />This is what I want as well. I think there are plenty of ways to go about it without screwing over guilds and making things interesting. Because at the end of the day, a lot of people enjoy being special in some way, and 'tank' isn't special enough.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-15180242685828902122009-09-19T09:23:11.123-07:002009-09-19T09:23:11.123-07:00Hi, I was quite surprised, but I'm glad I coul...Hi, I was quite surprised, but I'm glad I could help :).<br />To clarify my post, I wasn't whining that ferals are bad in PvE.<br />Recently I started tanking heroics and I got to a strange point. I had this staff:<br />http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35583<br />And later I got my hands on:<br />http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38618<br /><br />So I was trying to compare the loss of AGI with the gain of AP, when I got to the point, that Savage Defense is just something that goes along with the bear form. It's not effective enought for the player to say "Well, though this weapon doesn't have AGI, the AP will provide equal mitigation.".<br />I addition, I don't like Blizzard's intention to make all tanks work alike. This has been metioned here already, that why should there be more than one tanking class, if they all have about the same mitigation, health, dps, tps?<br />It's funny that I play druid, I like WoW druid and scaling of it's with equip and lvl, on the contrary with my favourite game Neverwinter Nights. But to make something clear, I like passive mitigation more than dodge :D. Frankly, I've never played warrior or paladin and I don't want to level them now...<br />Back to the dodge, it's sort of a big source of spike damage. It can be misleading for the healer, when you start with the boss like "dodge, miss, dodge, dodge" and suddenly it can turn into "hit, parried, hit, hit..".<br />So while you're doding the boss, he has his atk. speed lowered, the ability to stack up some sort of passive mitigation would be helpful.<br />Right now how this is countered is just a large HP pool... And that's kinda boring. But still it's something typical for the bear...<br /><br />And you can clearly see, that Blizzard is going to make tanks alike when looking at the equipment.<br />The choice of tanking equipement is poor and I don't think it's going to get better. I find it stupid that some leather is good for DPS of mail and plate wearers, that we steal hunters' polearms and they steal our staves. That there is only one tanking amulet I can buy for the Emblem of Heroism, it's the least useful for feral and still, it 2nd BiS pre-raid tanking amulet. Same goes for PvP equipment, half of the pre-raid BiS is Deadly. Seriously, WTH?!<br /><br />All this is very discouraging and I think WoW druid comunity needs new Alamo figure to keep our spirits up. I just fell like a dog eating leftovers of my master's fast food.<br />And though ferals still do good in PvE, they are far from flexible in PvP now...<br /><br />So in conclusion and in realation to your suggested bear bonus stamina nerf, I think this should come from firm distinction, what would paladin/warrior/bear be good and bad at, thus making classes different in essence of gameplay and gaming style, but equal overall. I know that druid scaling needs an overhaul, but I don't think that same passive and active mitigation, HP pool, dps, threat.. is a good way to go.<br />I've heard one good argument why tanking as paladin is better than tanking as bear... you don't have to look at bear's poorly animated bottom :D. Bear without originality will be a dead spec.<br /><br />PS: about the resistance, I've read it at wowwiki, so you're right when thinking that certain enchants etc. with appropriate resistance can be more effective in certain boss fights. The shame of it is it doesn't work that well in PvP. :/Zaxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-89180365220508121072009-09-18T14:33:04.991-07:002009-09-18T14:33:04.991-07:00Anon, probably not. 32 more resistance is likely n...Anon, probably not. 32 more resistance is likely not going to get you the win, especially when you're swapping things like +10 all stats, +20 agility or 55 stam/22 agility for them. The tradeoff is probably too high. <br /><br />Unlike Sarth, you're not absolutely needing to hit some specific resistance benchmark, so don't kill your gear set just to get as much resistance as humanly possible. A little bit goes a long, long way here.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-91330149944440606152009-09-18T14:16:46.468-07:002009-09-18T14:16:46.468-07:00i mean 4x8 resistance :)
http://www.wowhead.com/?...i mean 4x8 resistance :)<br /><br />http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=35523Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-49203473758878475202009-09-18T14:15:36.033-07:002009-09-18T14:15:36.033-07:00Kalon do you think it would be worth to use the na...Kalon do you think it would be worth to use the naure resistance tbc armor kits for 3x8 resistance more over the regular enchants on those slotsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-29968028677932432252009-09-17T13:06:54.075-07:002009-09-17T13:06:54.075-07:00re: Kalon
For now a Ret/Prot Pally are best candid...<i><br />re: Kalon<br />For now a Ret/Prot Pally are best candidates to put up Imp Demo Shout. Two-points and goes on without using extra GCDs. </i><br /><br />And if I ran with a prot pally consistently, that would be awesome. :) Or for that matter a ret pally that had that ability - but I'd still need the slow.<br /><br />I might consider dropping FA; it should be up a majority of the time on our heroic Anub kills, and that's the place where I'm mostly worried about not having it. But the slow is still not covered via other means.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-52138148210870583992009-09-17T12:55:30.521-07:002009-09-17T12:55:30.521-07:00re: Anon
Blizz's desire when they unified Stav...re: Anon<br />Blizz's desire when they unified Staves/Polearms for Druids and Hunters was not to create Tanking specific two-handers. <br /><br />The reason being, is once you have that, its becomes a long time before you upgrade.<br />And thus trying not to put armor on two-handers anymore.<br /><br />Having said that, for a decent (at the time) Two-Handed mace that was very good for tanking (DK+Druid) check out Inevitable Defeat.<br /><br />re: Kalon<br />For now a Ret/Prot Pally are best candidates to put up Imp Demo Shout. Two-points and goes on without using extra GCDs.Bulamisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-13804429476840184532009-09-17T12:48:08.538-07:002009-09-17T12:48:08.538-07:00Yeah, that's the real rub, darksend - I run en...Yeah, that's the real rub, darksend - I run enough 10-man content without warriors or tanks with both demo shout and a slow that it's fairly important that I keep it around, at least for a while. It'd be nice to be able to drop FA and IW, but I don't see that happening - and really, my threat isn't normally such an issue that it really matters.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-6961417709422607052009-09-17T12:43:44.871-07:002009-09-17T12:43:44.871-07:00http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/tps/all/8...http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/tps/all/8/0/3<br /><br />http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/tps/drd/8/0/3/320<br /><br />http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/tps/all/7/0/3/320<br /><br />http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/tps/drd/7/0/3/320<br /><br />I love imp mangle, wouldn't trade it for anything. Although my raid setup allows me to get both imp mangle and MSS and skip IW.Darksend Mercenarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04390112227038637450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-58333899747353646212009-09-17T10:50:55.469-07:002009-09-17T10:50:55.469-07:00I've wondered why there aren't any tank-sp...I've wondered why there aren't any tank-specific 2-handed maces in Wrath. When Death Knights were first announced I was sure bears would be sharing tank weapons with them. Instead we're sharing DPS weapons with hunters. In either case, it's basically only two classes using the same weapons. I'd have thought having us share with maces would have allowed for more tank specific stats.<br /><br />Not that expect you to have an insights into the mind of Blizz, it's just a recurring thought I've had.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-50727081674005433882009-09-17T09:46:48.693-07:002009-09-17T09:46:48.693-07:00Alaron, I'd agree; for bears especially I'...Alaron, I'd agree; for bears especially I'd argue that LW/Alch would be a superior combination of talents simply because of the special benefits each profession gives you outside of pure health. JC and BS are more versatile in terms of gemming choices (and thus stat choices) but it's hard to find anything comparable to +95 resistance to anything on demand.<br /><br />Darksend, it's interesting you bring up imp mangle, because I've poo-pooed that in the past as being not particularly strong or necessary. I do agree that with it the rotation becomes much more intriguing. But have you found it to be significantly higher threat than the theorycrafting? And when I said that for a fight where threat was super important bears weren't the best, I wasn't trying to imply that bear threat was bad, it's just not the best. Paladins (and now, warriors) beat bears. But threat is basically fine for most fights, though it might take a few GCDs to get there.<br /><br />And I HATE berserk being on GCD. HATE HATE HATE.<br /><br />Anon, that's a reasonable point - and I agree that staves with agi are definitely for feral cats. But the stats on them are very rarely geared towards a bear. There's almost never any expertise, rarely any hit, and usually they stack arpen instead of haste (especially on the most recent ones). Those aren't 'bear' weapons, and they're not even that great as threat weapons for bears (at least not as good as they could be). The point is that they're not designed with tanking in mind; they're designed to be appealing to cats and hunters, and if bears get some use out of 'em so it goes.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-50247110481754563202009-09-17T08:35:51.056-07:002009-09-17T08:35:51.056-07:00Not related to the article as a whole, but I did w...Not related to the article as a whole, but I did want to ask you to please, please not refer to our weapons as hunter weapons. It's hard enough as it is - we don't want people to default to thinking something that wrong. I PUG a lot, so you have to deal with stupid misconceptions often. I won Origin of Nightmares the first time it dropped, but I rolled against hunters. Before that I had lost one of the lesser staves to a hunter.<br /><br />These are feral weapons that a hunter might like to have at some point. Much like a hot bow or gun that drops is a hunter weapon that a warrior or rogue might like to have at some point.<br /><br />Staves with agi on them are feral weapons, there can be no other name for them. Yes, a hunter can use them, but by no means should they be ever able to roll on them and win over a mainspec feral. <br /><br />When you get into the weapons that other melee classes can use that's one thing, but any of them should always win over a hunter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-29594167113820030872009-09-17T04:27:22.870-07:002009-09-17T04:27:22.870-07:00my personal problem is with people who complain th...my personal problem is with people who complain that druid threat is so much worse than the other classes and that we are the most boring of the classes to tank on. For a while I was buying into it too until I realized how poorly I was playing and a fundamental flaw in my rotation for a stretch once everything got on farm. <br /><br />Our burst and aoe threat are still slightly lacking but the imp mangle rotation is EXTREMELY FUN. weaving in FF and keeping a 5 stack of lacerate while still swiping when its up and everything is on cooldown with mangle and FF having a different cd. sorry but it is anything but boring <br /><br />not to be rude but go get a weapon upgrade and learn to use your abilities to their highest potential instead of just macroing all of your abilities into a castsquence macro with maul in it and going drinky-bird afk.<br /><br />sorry for the rant kalon but its been bothering me recently with the amount of OMG DRUID THREAT SUCKS posts I have been seeing recently.Darksend Mercenarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04390112227038637450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-67316129027138056152009-09-16T21:30:10.772-07:002009-09-16T21:30:10.772-07:00Oh yea we're beyond stupidly good. I actually...Oh yea we're beyond stupidly good. I actually tanked Icehowl in a Normal 25 PUG for most of the fight (tanks got gibbed on the first two failed wall crashes), in my armor pen gemmed cat spec (e.g no PoTP, Thick Hide, Natural Reaction). Sure it's not "hard mode", but still I was far from being in my optimal tank spec/gear and it was enough to down him. <br /><br />The great thing I've discovered about how well we're doing in ToC, is that we can do it all extremely well. MT, no prob. OT and muster good cat dps...easysauce.Xarnenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832098978664772376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-41005171562687055512009-09-16T21:26:32.500-07:002009-09-16T21:26:32.500-07:00While I can't speak to Anub (hell, I've on...While I can't speak to Anub (hell, I've only seen the Beasts on normal 10), this reminds me of why I dropped skinning for alchemy...mixology bonus to the lesser resistance flask for solo attempts on Shade/Prince. :)Alaronhttp://thefluiddruid.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-53925987689001673802009-09-16T19:14:45.441-07:002009-09-16T19:14:45.441-07:00Bulamis, I'm not sure how far that parse went,...Bulamis, I'm not sure how far that parse went, but on our kill he only healed for 700k total. And the difference between the kill and the previous week's best attempt (5%) was 300k healing total. That's 600k damage that he did that was not around, and personally 200k damage on me that was removed (along with 100k healing). That's substantial, and it makes things like raid healing a lot easier. Plus it corresponds to a lot less scary damage. It's up to you; it's certainly not required, but it made things much, much easier for us.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-91466493929603129872009-09-16T18:42:15.680-07:002009-09-16T18:42:15.680-07:00@ bulamis
in 25 ABSOLUTELY!!!!
there is a reason...@ bulamis<br /><br />in 25 ABSOLUTELY!!!!<br /><br />there is a reason so few guilds in 25 man have killed it. We are consistently getting phase 3 and after almost a minute into phase 3 he is only at 24-25%. <br /><br />As to how I feel druids. We are stupid. Gear be damned we are the best tanks right now. Other than paladins we are the highest threat tanks, go check my threat records on wmo. EH is the most important thing right now except on gimmicks. Warriors need some serious help right now.Darksend Mercenarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04390112227038637450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-12497094969397609062009-09-16T18:18:49.036-07:002009-09-16T18:18:49.036-07:00Bulamis,
Its not so much the healing of Anub that...Bulamis,<br /><br />Its not so much the healing of Anub that I was trying to reduce but actually the incoming dmg I was taking from the swarm so as to help minimise the healing pressure that was on our healers.Torossohttp://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz%27goroth&n=Torossonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-25885620857586101422009-09-16T17:39:37.300-07:002009-09-16T17:39:37.300-07:00One observation regarding Resistance:
Overall it i...One observation regarding Resistance:<br />Overall it is not very significant in how much healing you are preventing.<br /><br />In our kill this past week, I only had Imp GotW. And provided a total of 186484 health to Anub. (10-man)<br /><br />So if on average I was mitigating 10%, and going to 30% mitigation with some resistance gear, you would shave off only 40k health gained. Roughly about 1 second of dps time.<br /><br />Is that worth the gear tradeoff?<br /><br />http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0s735Gt6tFmcdTso/spell/66125/?s=2987&e=3275Bulamisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-83593735182036984412009-09-16T16:28:00.134-07:002009-09-16T16:28:00.134-07:00My guild and I are working on 10man Anub hard.
Th...My guild and I are working on 10man Anub hard.<br /><br />The biggest issue is the healers having trouble dealing with the raid while I am taking some big dmg.<br /><br />This is most evident when you get the combo of Freezing Slash (which stuns you) then leeching tick then melee. Thats some big dmg. <br /><br />Funnily enough we came to almost the same conclusion as you did. I use both armor trinkets (lowering my overall HP) and then also use resistance gear to make it a guaranteed 20% resist (more than 220).<br /><br />Which as you know is just resist flask + NR back + NR head + totem. Its pretty simple for all tanks but bears loose the least from doing this.<br /><br />We haven't tried this yet but I am looking forward to killing him this week after not being able to last week.Torossohttp://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz%27goroth&n=Torossonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-56489792551725315112009-09-16T14:04:34.362-07:002009-09-16T14:04:34.362-07:00@ Honors
Prot Paly's are loving life right no...@ Honors <br />Prot Paly's are loving life right now. <br />There is a constant struggle to keep all classes =, and the rotation will continue. I think it is in Blizz' best interest to have one class be the king for a little while then nerf them and make a different class the king: this is in regards to dps, tanks, and heals. What needs to happen, and it sort of has, is the classes all being specialized in one type or another. For instance having a bear on boss X would be better than a plate wearer due to the [Devious Disruption of Plate] the so said boss casts… and on and on. The challenge of this type is when you have no bear in raid and you come across boss X. You can’t make everyone happy all of the time, so why not make some of the people really happy for a short time? At least that’s how I see it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-51609657934409624132009-09-16T10:40:06.042-07:002009-09-16T10:40:06.042-07:00"The hard luck is that Blizz doesn't care..."The hard luck is that Blizz doesn't care about ______ "<br /><br />You'll find nearly every class feels this way. Look at a Warrior board, Shaman board, etc. You'll see a similiar sentiment.Honors Codehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603644804340531952noreply@blogger.com