tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post2958141841587796741..comments2023-10-03T03:48:35.523-07:00Comments on ThinkTank: [Druid]Nerfing stamina the right way 2 - more examplesKalonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-53277519559293988312009-07-27T12:41:12.508-07:002009-07-27T12:41:12.508-07:00Tanking is not just about health pools. Warriors,...Tanking is not just about health pools. Warriors, paladins and DK have FAR SUPERIOR mitigation cooldowns. Nerfing bear health would absolutely require improved CDs, otherwise who in their right mind would ever use a bear to tank? Blizzard has stated on many occations that they do not want 4 identical tanking classes, and it seems everyone else wants them to all be the same.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-78277870212948342202009-07-24T14:01:46.128-07:002009-07-24T14:01:46.128-07:00Continued in part 3 here:
http://wowthinktank.blog...Continued in part 3 here:<br />http://wowthinktank.blogspot.com/2009/07/druid-nerfing-stamina-right-way-part-3.html<br /><br />Toskk - I had no idea they weren't multiplicative. Huh. So imp Motw + Hotw+SotF are actually just a straight 1.18 multiplier? Weird. Not a big deal, but it makes the numbers slightly off here and there. Good to know.<br /><br />Anon - I don't really care about hit/expertise. My threat is fine, and it has been for a while. When I've got good gear my hit is usually close to the cap and my expertise is well over the dodge cap. Giving bears more of this will just make rogues and cats miserable without really gaining anything, and it won't make PvP gear any less awesome.<br /><br />Thessaly, thanks again for taking the time to do that. Same to you, Paul.<br /><br />Michael, I am a bit worried about the beginning level bear tank too. I'm very tempted to just go buy some bad gear and go to town with it, and see how I can do. I think that with conquest badges coming out this really won't be an issue; it'll be so easy to get better gear that you'll be shooting up gearing in no time.<br /><br />Anon - hit is useful for a number of things, like taunt resists, picking up loose adds, and doing more damage. While it's not crucial, it is important. And many bosses can't be taunted and threat is very important. I don't value hit a great deal relative to other stats, but saying it's of no value is a bit silly. Same with expertise. That being said, I don't really care if more hit/expertise shows up on gear. I want the other stats to matter more.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-30122097483905562942009-07-24T11:16:11.627-07:002009-07-24T11:16:11.627-07:00Edit: 2,5% expertise = 1% less damage taken.Edit: 2,5% expertise = 1% less damage taken.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-46942359400533643802009-07-24T11:05:32.947-07:002009-07-24T11:05:32.947-07:00I might be ignorant, and I dont want to offend any...I might be ignorant, and I dont want to offend anyone, but I truley dont understand why you want Hit rating for a tank!<br /><br />Threat on a single mob/boss is, in my opinion, no issue. It is AoE threat that might be troubelsome.<br /><br />If you cant keep agro just let the other tank taunt the boss and taunt the boss back imideately.<br /><br />Expertise is not that great either (for mitigation). Acording to my calculations (not shown) 2,5 expertise is equal to 1% less damage taken (on avarage) and if you dont have above 10-12% expertise you can expect to take 2 parry haste in a row on a boss fight (10 min). Since most tanks tank with less then 10-12% expertise, expertise is not some thing to die for (:p) to get.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-91203742391170269562009-07-24T09:44:27.368-07:002009-07-24T09:44:27.368-07:00My toon Roots sits around 52k fully raid buffed, a...My toon Roots sits around 52k fully raid buffed, a solid 5-6k above any of the other tanks I used to run with. JC/LW, pvp shoulder enchant, 2 shiftings 3 solid prismatic and the rest solid make it pretty easy to do. Two things I'd change: wrist from 10man XT hardmode, and praying to see Twisted Visage drop which would put me around 250 Hit with 32 expertise. (My hit is godaweful right now, but even with hit food no one pulls off me outside of gimmick fights)<br /><br />Some of these naysayers look like they prefer dps leather to better itemized tank leather. I'd take a 4k hit if it truly fixed the problem, but I'd be concerned about leveling a druid as a tank and starting off endgame with these changes(my first pull in Heroics+polar gear in Nax10 I sat at 28k)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00469031841561586495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-70000950366766693922009-07-23T18:14:47.384-07:002009-07-23T18:14:47.384-07:00Here's our stats from just before tonight'...Here's our stats from just before tonight's Steelbreaker pull, fully fluffed. While we do have an edge in health and armor, I don't think it's so gross as to warrant any massive adjustments.<br /><br />Thessaly (Druid)<br />49.3k health<br />32.9k armor<br />47.69% dodge<br /><br />Mikerk (Paladin)<br />47.9k health<br />28.2k armor<br />28.37 dodge<br />20.55 parry<br /><br />Ghorlack (Warrior)<br />47.1k health<br />27.8k armor<br />27.74 dodge<br />19.45 parryThessalynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-78582686459273447782009-07-23T16:39:25.742-07:002009-07-23T16:39:25.742-07:00Thanks man, that fixed it! I was forgetting the wh...Thanks man, that fixed it! I was forgetting the whole fact that we had base stats. >.>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03740042177955704509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-60633072022852825092009-07-23T15:46:29.734-07:002009-07-23T15:46:29.734-07:00Paul - really quickly, since I don't have much...Paul - really quickly, since I don't have much time right this second - all you do is take the stamina difference after you've gone through the multipliers and then multiply that by 10. 1 stam = 10 HP. That's it. <br /><br />What I did to figure things out is to simply load everything in Rawr, see the health total, then figure out the difference in stamina and manually compute the health difference. That's it. Hope that helps.Kalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193899462301079034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-39341122440824870402009-07-23T15:41:40.077-07:002009-07-23T15:41:40.077-07:00"Don't nerf the bears. Fix their itemizat..."Don't nerf the bears. Fix their itemization and give leather more hit/expertise."<br /><br />Now that is just silly. Come on now. I just dropped gatekeeper for the hodir10 ring and I am still over the hit cap. I also have 31 exp from gear, 10 from talents. If I replaced my back, a trinket, and legs I can be hit and exp capped in the same set. If anything we have it MUCH better than plate classes in that part of itemization.<br /><br />Scaling is certainly the issue imo. <br /><br />Anywho wru Felhoof! This idiot, and by that I mean myself, needs to know how to calculate our hp!! =*(Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03740042177955704509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-27882109475557896412009-07-23T15:37:49.544-07:002009-07-23T15:37:49.544-07:00I (Thessaly of Kargath) end up with 49.2k health r...I (<a href="http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Thessaly" rel="nofollow">Thessaly of Kargath</a>) end up with 49.2k health raid buffed including shout. Our Protadin (<a href="http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Mikerk" rel="nofollow">Mikerk of Kargath</a>) hits just under 48k. Our Warrior (<a href="http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Ghorlack" rel="nofollow">Ghorlack of Kargath</a>) is also just under 48k. <br /><br />The difference is less than 2k in any case, even if I were to swap to a second stamina trinket. I could swap some Shiftings to Solid, but that basically comes down to swapping 66 sta for 80 agi when you account for set bonuses. I could maybe pull 3.5k ahead with a second sta trinket and regemming for pure stamina.<br /><br />I think that next patch (216 sta trinket, anyone?) this will definitely become more of an issue. But right now I don't think we're so far ahead as to require massive adjustment, especially given our relatively lackluster damage reduction cooldown.Thessalynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-31794313012533410552009-07-23T15:05:57.497-07:002009-07-23T15:05:57.497-07:00Kalon,
Bears might be a little overpowered right ...Kalon,<br /><br />Bears might be a little overpowered right now, but I place the blame more on itemization than on our stats. One of the greater problems that nothing I've seen focus on yet is Hit/Expertise. I saw the thread on the forums about avoidance being nearly the same. I've seen numerous other threads about it and blogs. They all focus on avoidance and mitigation, without including those two stats, which are pretty important stats to both bears and cats (although expertise to a much lesser extent).<br /><br />You take a look at most plate tanks, and they're loaded with both. My guild is just starting Ulduar-10 hard modes, and we have tanks of all 4 classes (myself being the only bear). While the other three have about 4-5k less health than I do, all 3 of them have have significantly more hit/expertise than I do (and unlike most tanks, I gem/enchant for hit/expertise when I can). If I'm not mistaken, the DK and the pally are both at the hit cap, and I know one of them is at the expertise cap. All while being defense capped, having avoidance/mitigation nearly the same as myself (within 5%, and probably closer). My hit on the other hand, while gemming/enchanting for it, is 2% below the cap (knowing that decimals are rounded off) and my expertise sits around 8% - about 8% below the hard cap. What do I have over them? Oh, I crit about 10% more than any of them.<br /><br />Don't nerf the bears. Fix their itemization and give leather more hit/expertise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-72535877171389999812009-07-23T14:48:11.449-07:002009-07-23T14:48:11.449-07:00Hi Kalon,
Just a quick note after reading over th...Hi Kalon,<br /><br />Just a quick note after reading over the posts about Stamina multipliers.. the feral talents are additive with each other, rather than multiplicative (essentially all talents are). So Imp. Mark of the Wild + Survival of the Fittest is a x1.08 combined multiplier. Keep up the good articles :)<br /><br />ToskkToskkhttp://druid.wikispaces.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1872162580492321772.post-66736063412927226162009-07-23T13:27:00.441-07:002009-07-23T13:27:00.441-07:00"On some of the commenters (Nandy and others)..."On some of the commenters (Nandy and others) that mentioned that they're only 3k ahead of other tanks in their guild - I'm really curious now. My suspicion is that there are either buffs that are missing or that the gear isn't perfectly full - on stamina centric, or professions aren't. I could be wrong, in which case this would put that bear behind the warrior. But again - might not be so bad."<br /><br />With full raid buffs I hit 50591.<br /><a href="http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Medivh&n=Nandy" rel="nofollow">Nandy of Medivh</a><br /><br />With full raid buffs Zeel, our warrior hits 46405.<br /><a href="http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Medivh&n=Zeel" rel="nofollow">Zeel of Medivh</a><br /><br />With full raid buffs Tippo, our Paladin hits 46816.<br /><a href="http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Medivh&n=Tippo" rel="nofollow">Tippo of Medivh</a><br /><br />We all 3 are JCers, but they do have a better second profession for sta than I do. Warrior has BS, and the paladin has enchanting. I have Inscription. I could add 50 sta to make my lead higher.<br /><br />We all pretty well go for the decent socket bonuses. Myself for the sta/agi bonuses, them for the dodge rating/sta bonuses. We could all probably increase our hp by a good bit if we did full sta gems. <br /><br />Its more like a 4k lead. I coulda swore the pally hit over 47k, he must of changed something. Probably changed some 24 sta gems into shifting. <br /><br />While I am here, how do I calculate my final hp with a spread sheet a lot like the one you did. Do I simply add the 2255 from shout and 1300 from flask? Do I just multiply my total sta by x? What would x be? I already added a food section for that 40sta.<br /><br />Finally, I agree, it might not be so bad if we are behind them. With our armor lead the way it is now.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03740042177955704509noreply@blogger.com